Peace humble guest Thanks Believer for your comments! I appreciate it! I'm working hard so I can be like you!!!

humble_guest wrote:

by all of the so-called evidence you gave to me makes you believe that it's true?

No that’s obviously not true, but what I do know is that the Qur’an has infinitely more evidence of its authenticity than does any other Scripture.

I believe this not to be true. One because mohammed himself was fake and a charlot and 2 he didn't have a clear understanding of the torah and gospels. He only made them up to his own liking.

humble_guest wrote:

The difference between Christianity and other religions is because we have a close and personal relationship with our God almighty. We know what we have to do [whether or not we choose to listen] and how to go about our lives. The proof is in what our heavenly father shows to us through our daily relationship with Him. Of course the Bible helps us to undestand what is expected of us as good christians, but it is He who provides us with our daily needs. It's more spiritual than techinical and that's something alot of people of the flesh cannot understand. It's like I'm talking English to you when you can onlly understand French.

That’s not true shepherd, this is something that comes up every single time the Bible’s authenticity is questioned. All of a sudden people say “well at least I have a personal relationship with God”.

This "Well at least" statement is troublesome. Don't put words into people's mouths like that. At least makes it seem as if they have no other way out and just use this "cop out" method of reasoning. I'm not like that. I already told you I've been through your road before.

humble_guest wrote: Do you actually believe that Christians are the only one with this relationship? This monopolization is a form of arrogance. The biggest reason I believe in Islam is because God comforts me in my belief, it is rational and true and has worldly evidence to vouch for it.

Rational reasoning is humanistic. Not from God. If you read the OT and the NT you can see that alot of the things Yaweh did were NOT rational. Always going back to help the Israelites, although they were against Him at times. Jesus as well, would heal the sick and eat with those who sinned against God. Although yes, one can have a personal relationship with their god [as the pagans did and still do up until this day- some people believe in their lucky charms and it helps them too], but that's a false security because you're putting your salvation in the hands of something that will not give you salvation and that's the major difference between the religions. Also, has your god ever talked to you? Has he ever lead you down certain paths?

humble_guest wrote: Other faiths, when questioned about their authenticity can only say “well at least I know God loves me” or “free your mind” (to ignore the disparity). But God has to comfort you in your heart AND intellect, that’s the difference between Islam and other faiths. You don’t have to “veil” your mind from doubt and questions of authenticity and rely solely on the comfort you feel. In fact, EVERY faith claims to have this comfort, from Hinduism through to Bhuddism.

Claiming and having are two different things. I have it and I haven't gone wrong yet. God loves all of His people regardless of what they are doing, however He will come to them one day to take them "home" and under His wing. It's up to that person whether or not they want to go to Him. I think there's a story in the bible that talked about a man and his dog on the roof during the flood. This guy was certain that God was going to save him. Three people passed him by asking him if he needed a ride, but he told them that "God will save me" the guy drowned and when he went to heaven he asked God why he wasn't saved. God told him that he sent not one but 3 people to save him but he refused the gift. I need not say no more.

humble_guest wrote:

I believe the entire bible to be true. I believe in Jesus Christ as my saviour. Jesus is and will always be the final messenger for me and He's proved it to me and I'm sure alot of other followers many times over and over again.

The only reason you believe Jesus to be the Savior is because you believe the Bible to be true. But you don’t know the Bible to be true, you only believe it to be so. How can you spend your life living by what you don’t both know AND believe to be true? What then distinguishes you from Joseph Smith, the authenticity of his scripture demands pure faith, since its story cannot stand on worldly proof at all.

Ok let me rephrase- I KNOW that the Bible is true. I KNOW Jesus is true too. I know that He loves me just like He loves you and everyone else and I know that He is saddened by people who are only looking for some type of physical proof and authenticity to His trueness, His Godliness and so on. Mohammed's stories are not worldy proof. They are just fabrications added on by mythical arabian stories as well. You can claim these are true? The miracles supposedly in the hadiths are not even in the koran since mohammed himself said that he cannot perform any miracles.
You expect people to believe that? the authenticity of mohammed's faith is the same as well and if you decide to leave him, you will surely die by your own people's hands.

humble_guest wrote:

I don't need someone like Muhammed or Joseph Smith to tell me other wise because they are dellusional.

Well I won’t defend Joseph Smith because I see striking similarities between the demands of the Book of Mormon and those of the defenders of the Bible, blind faith. But I’ll tell you what I have noticed on this forum. Every Christian person has cursed or ridiculed the Qur’an and Muhammad (pbuh). I think one’s actions are a good indication of one’s internal condition and I know even by your beliefs Jesus (pbuh) did not curse other religions of the time, he didn’t need to.

And you haven't questioned, ridiculed the integretity of the bible? come one now. Stop trying to switch and bait here. Every single muslim I've come in contact with always plays this game. Blind faith, in a way is good because those are the meek that truly accept the word of God, unlike people who are always looking for some type of "proof" Proof seekers are the ones that usually get duped into the end because they can be fooled into believing that something is true when it's not [gob is a good example].

A few weeks ago I had to sign off a work assignment over the weekend to someone and I needed someone else to get the work to me before the end of the day. That person sent the assignment down to the main office without me knowing but I left a note for the next guy to do the work.
On Monday I heard that the guy didn't do it and I was getting blamed for not following up. Although I did leave the note, they couldn't find the note. I also produced paperwork that two other people saw the work and didn't pass it onto the weekend guy. None of them got into trouble, only me.

The question remains, where was that note? I left it for that guy. No one questioned him about it. Punch line is although the proof is there, no one had faith in me to believe that I would be so lazy as to NOT leave a note for the weekend guy to do the work. Hmm..maybe I should've forged a note and then they would've believed me.

humble_guest wrote: http://www.answering-islam.org.uk/Quran ... index.html

Forget it. I already read the hadiths and provided them to you. If you don't want to accept the truth sincerly that your prophet was a hoax, then that's on you, not me.

Just read it. Stop batting everything away. Obviously you’re not sincere when you’re afraid to read what might affect you.

If anyone's not sincere, it's you. You want us to read everything and read this and that, but have you even taken the time out to read the bible for yourself? All of these so called miracles are just shams and have been refuted time and time again. Show me something new and maybe I'll give it time. As far as fear is concerned, the only fear I have is turning my back on my beloved Jesus Christ, but since I know that will not happen, I have nothing to fear. Your psychological tactics will not work on me, sorry. ops:

humble_guest wrote: Considering that not a single person could emulate the Qur’an in the literary peak of the area, it shouldn’t even matter to you that the Prophet was unlettered since even if he was the Qur’an is miraculous.

You're kidding, right?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 65, Number 366:
Quote:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet said, 'When you eat, do not wipe your hands till you have licked it, or had it licked by somebody else."

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 1, Number 0041:
Quote:
Narrated Khuzaymah ibn Thabit:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was asked about cleansing (

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 72, Number 833:
Quote:
Narrated Abu Talha :

The Prophet said, "Angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or there are pictures."


Very miraculous indeed. LOL

humble_guest wrote: However, even by your estimation, if the Prophet was just “playing” why then would he just take out a pen out of nowhere and start writing? First you make it out to be an elaborate scheme to make the Qur’an seem miraculous, then you claim that it was all messed up when he accidentally wrote something and everyone saw him. Don’t you think the people around him, especially the hypocrites and skeptics who were watching this would have made a bigger deal of it?

r u sure about that? They may get killed since mohammed had people killed that were against him. Oh those darn infidels.

humble_guest wrote:

The fact still remains that he could read and write.

I’m glad that this is such a sticking point for you. At least it shows how intensely you realize that the Qur’an could not have been written by an unlettered man. But neither could it even be EMULATED by the literary scholars and poets of the time.

That's why the original hadiths and probably the original koran itself was destroyed as well. It didn't make that much sense. Just alot of jibberish. But of course it is important. You have someone that supposedly couldn't read, that means his information was given to someone else who was not a prophet. This person could've "added" things. Where is the authenticity now?

Quran 20:15
Quote:
Shakir:
Surely the hour is coming-- I am about to make it manifest-- so that every soul may be rewarded as it strives:

YusufAli:
"Verily the Hour is coming - My design is to keep it hidden - for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavour.

Palmer:
‘Verily, the hour is coming, I almost make it appear, that every soul may be recompensed for its efforts.

Pickthal:
Lo! the Hour is surely coming. But I will to keep it hidden, that every soul may be rewarded for that which it striveth (to achieve).

hmmm....but then again he was a merchant. Very fishy if you ask me. It's very relevant. Using a lie such as not being able to write is a good way to sway people into believing that this book is truly "inspired" It's only logical thinking.

humble_guest wrote:

Why would mohameed need to buy scriptures from people anyway if he got the direct revelation from god through the angel? That doesn't make sense.

What do you mean? That verse was a command to the Jews to not sell God’s word for a paltry gain, it does not refer to Muhammad (pbuh).

Oh but they sold it and mohammed bought them. why would he need to buy them? He can't read. Maybe he would get someone to read them for him.

humble_guest wrote: Here is some important background on what constitutes “hadith”

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/

Read this especially, it’s a good summary:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith ... ences.html

And here’s a rough explanation:

Ok I'll read these at a later time, but I'm still not convinced. These works were written long after mohammed's death and anyone could conspire to lie about knowing mohammed and whomever. The quran itself is the same too. anyone could've said whatever and had it backed up by someone else. Lie on top of a lie on top of another lie. I don't remember which game came out first... Atari? Anyway others perfected it, but that doesn't mean that Atari [or which ever] was not the original pioneer of the video game revolution.

humble_guest wrote:

ANY layperson could tell that milk came from the breast. So what? There is no miracle in that.

But that’s not what the verse says. It was talking about how the mammary glands are nourished, how the milk itself is formed, not that it comes out of the breast which anyone can see in front of them. It was a question of HOW the milk is formed. Any lay person could not tell you how the milk is formed, especially not 1400 years ago. Also, this is just one of MANY scientific miracles.

Anyone could come up with that thought. It's no big deal. Also I think there's one about the sperm coming from a man's chest cavity? Science already disproved that.

humble_guest wrote:

PH has nothing to do with a barrier. PH has to do with the basic of acidic nature of fluid such as water. water can either be an acid or a base.

Not all water has a pH of exactly 7. Water can be slightly acidic or basic depending on its molarity i.e. ~6.5 or ~7.5

Exactly and that's because of the mixing of the two different waters. And that was my point. Therefore, no miracle of barriers of water.

humble_guest wrote:

Check the Atlantic ocean next to the meditteranean sea water by the gibralter sil. There are no barriers, in fact there are mixtures of both salt water and fresh water by certain percentages.

The Mediterranean is connected to the GIGANTIC Atlantic Ocean. Didn’t you ever wonder why they have two distinct water properties?

that would probably have to deal with the type of enviroment. However the fact still remains that the waters mix.

humble_guest wrote: If you have a plate full of one type of water, and pour a little of another type of water into its side, then measure the water. It’s a weighted average of their two properties, the solutions mix. This doesn’t happen with the rivers and oceans.

They do flow into each other, that means they do mix, but only to a certain degree. I think it has something to do with osmosis, but not full osmosis.

humble_guest wrote:

The point of the matter is that it's useless to even memorize a book of lies. That's my point. It doesn't matter to me if someone wants to memorize something. What's the point when the thing you're memorizing isn't even going to save you when the time comes? The corruption is the koran itself so the corruption has already been memorized.

You only think the Qur’an is corrupted because you base that belief on the Bible.

No I don't think I know it is a lie and yes the Bible plays a major part, however it's not the entire part. I haev an intellecutal mind too, you know. I'm not just a blind believer as you would think of me as.

humble_guest wrote: The Qur’an is better preserved than the Bible, it was preserved for longer, it was written and recorded and memorized BEFORE its messenger disappeared. It contains miracles and prophecies to vouch for its authenticity. I don’t see how you are using a Scripture of weaker authenticity to claim that one of stronger authenticity is corrupted.

Many fairy tales can be perserved, there's nothing special about that. koran is one of them. If you're basing this as your sole aspect because of it's "authenticity" then I think you need to do more research on your beloved koran.

humble_guest wrote:

Most religions ask this because they know it's better "brainwashing" Love is a spiritual thing, it's not intellectual, it's purely spiritual and that's what our God is all about. Pure love.

Religion is COMPLETE belief.

I'm not so sure about that since in islam you guys are looking for proofs and authenticities.

humble_guest wrote: God is Truth, there can be no doubt regarding His commands. I’ve told you this before, but the Bhuddists think they are much more spiritual than the Christians, in fact they tell you to completely block out the mind…why would someone ask a believer to block out their mind?

Actually by clearing one's mind of all thoughts is supposed to give you more concentration in the spiritual realm since most humans are more inclined to fleshly things.

humble_guest wrote: Only when the Scripture does not offer certainty with regard to its divine nature. Whenever there’s no proof, people are asked to believe blindly. Anyway, even though the QUr’an brings with it so many proofs, people like yourself still don’t believe, so obviously there is a strong factor of belief as well.

What proofs? These are all based on the lies of mohammed. The only proof is that he duped alot of people, that's all. Believer and many of the people have given you proofs as well as I have [including the fallacy of the gob] and you don't believe neither because you are already brainwashed into believing this mohammed.

humble_guest wrote:

Well so far, to me, Islam is losing the test of 'proof' as well. I don't need proof from islam because I've already found it in Jesus Christ.

The Bhuddist and Hindu would applaud you for this, they argue the same way. They don’t need proof because they feel “comfort”. But when you think about it, EVERYONE feels comfort in what they believe when they block out their reasoning capacity.

The Hindu has many gods and they find comfort in them. I don't know that much about buddism, but to be honest, I would much rather have a buddist, hindu OR AETHIEST neighbor rather than a muslim. Why? they are too hostile and like to force religion down your throat. The buddist doesn't bother you, they have their belief and let them be. They have not perverted the word of God like muslims have.

humble_guest wrote:

but people like mohammed and islam fly in the face of God all the time because you cannot accept that someone loved you so much that He would give up His only begotten Son for you life of sin.

Not at all. You should be willing to believe EVERYTHING that God reveals, right or not?[/qoute]

Actually I have, but I do not accept islam in any way. I totally REJECT IT just like I reject the mormon church, Jehovah witness and anyone else that perverses the scriptures. That's the flaw that's in mohammed. He made a new doctirne and that's against the teachings of Jesus Christ.

humble_guest wrote: If you know for sure you have the word of God, then there shouldn’t be a question of whether or not you should believe it. People don’t believe in the sacrifice of a “begotten” son not because it doesn’t make sense, but simply because there is no indication that God EVER commanded this. You didn’t wake up one morning and rationalize that God had sacrificed a son, you read this in the Bible. You base this entire belief on the Bible, so the logical question is, how do you know the Bible is the word of God?

Yes, just like you didn't get up and realize that mohammed was your last prophet, you read that in the koran. And then the other logical question is how do you NOT KNOW it is not the word of God? In order go gain knowledge you read, right? If you read the Bible you will see that this was already spoken about way before Jesus was even born. I know the bible is the Word because of what I've read, what history I've read, by coming to sites like this and going to other sties. Having my own close contact with God and His angels, coming in contact with other loving christians, other non-christians, travelling the world, so on and so forth. I don't need some iman to tell me what this is or what that is, I already know it. It's already been settled with me. I see it in other people. The truth is wonderful.

humble_guest wrote: What signs does it bring to indicate this AND is there a Scripture with similar yet more evident signs?

Like I said, people fly in the face of God. Those who are lost are always looking for "proof" and God is giving it to you but yet they are still too blind to see. We play with God all the time. Question Him, look for proof, need this and that. He's too good to us. I know if I were a god, I would've wasted those who questioned me already. LOL I mean how many thousands of years do I need to show to you people about me already. For goodness sakes. 8)

humble_guest wrote:

My point was that we were in a situation with no way out and all was about to be lost, but through prayer we made it through [don't know how to explain that].

That’s good man. Sincere prayer is always answered and I don’t doubt that you entreated what you would call “the Father” with the most sincere of prayers and that’s why you were saved by Him.

Hmmm..I'm not so sure about that. You're still muslim and I'm still praying for you to be like my brother Bushmaster. I'm just kidding.

humble_guest wrote:

Jesus also warned about those who are in sheep's clothing. I personally am not interested. I'm learning everyday about islam and how its effect on the people are devastating. How much of a brain washing cult it is and how mohammed used "religion" to get his way. He is one of the most evil people I've ever read about in history.

Bro do you know how ironic this statement is? Do you know who the people in sheep’s clothing are? They are the people who provide you INCORRECT information while claiming to be on your side and helping you defend the TRUTH!

I hope you're not talking about the jews here Anyway the one supposedly giving you the correct information is mohammed and he's steared you faaaaaar away from where you should be, but that's your choice, not mine.

humble_guest wrote: They defend falsity with falsity while claiming to be sincere worshippers. THESE are the wolves in sheep’s clothing because they are pretending to be your friends but they are only caging your heart. That’s why all you get is a constant bombardment of what Islam is NOT and your sources are damning you because they are not bringing authentic information to you.

I don't think so. I do happen to have an intellect in case you were wondering. I've been all over the muslims sites and non-muslim sites. I've been to exmuslims and faith freedom.I've even been to aethist sites. They all provide very good and detailed information although I don't agree with them sometimes, they are at least honest. I also have been to some hate sites as well and although I do think some of them are extreme, most of them are on the notch when it comes to islam.

I know about your prophet and believe me he's a backwards sharlot. I don't know or understand how any man [or woman as a matter of fact] can pay homage to such a monster. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. JESUS all the way for me, thanks.

Yes, islam has "some" good in it as far as trying to regulate the people since they are animals I gues [or were, whatever], but besides that, it's just a moral code like freemasory or whatever. Nothing else, just a regular cult.

humble_guest wrote:

A leader like mohammed is not someone I would ever want to follow to be in contact with god. Jesus is definately the one I would follow forever to be with my Father in heaven.

When you follow Muhammad (pbuh) you ARE following Jesus because there is not a doubt in my mind that they brought the same exact message from God.

Well isn't that blasphemy if I've ever heard it. LOL Let's see, they brought the same message from God. Ok I have a good one. Jesus said marry only one woman. Mohammed said 4. OK we have a problem. someone is lying here. I know you're going to say the Bible is corrupt, but I will tell you this, Mohammed was corrupt. And yes I know he married all these women before he got his revealation and that's why he was entitled to keep more than the usual muslim man, but give me a break. Jesus says forgive them for they know not what they do, yet mohammed cursed the jews and christians. Yes, they both came directly from god. OK!! LOL

Jesus says that a woman can be a glorious mother without giving birth, but yet adoption is forbidden in koran. Hmm....something fishy going on here. I could go on but this post is way too long already. LOL It's interesting though.

humble_guest wrote:

If you say that Jesus will come back, break the cross and throw a pig like me into hell because I didn't follow the laviscious life of mohammed, then so be it.

Bro don’t be like this. Think clearly and thoroughly. Muslims know that Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, all the way back down to Abraham and Adam taught submission to the One God. That didn’t mean they all followed the same rites as these were added and changed with time and the testaments. Jesus returns to symbolically break the cross to show that this was not what he ever taught nor was he ever commanded to teach it. He symbolically “kills the swine” to show that he was sent as a messenger to UPHOLD the Mosaic laws that forbade swine, not to abrogate them.

Oh really. I doubt that especially since there are other animals that are forbidden to be eaten such as the camel, the shell fish in the sea. why didn't he use that instead huh? Or did mohammed know about shellfish and what they were called? Just stop already, you're making me laugh too hard and it's already late.

humble_guest wrote: And most importantly, the life of Muhammad was not lascivious, this is what you’ve been taught.

My gosh...I can read you know. I see it with my own eyes. I know this post is long, but would you like me to make it longer to show about mohammed boasting about his sexuality being that of 30 men? Give me a break.

humble_guest wrote: You’ve grown to hate polygyny while it was rampant with the prophets of the OT.

Yes and did you know that God did not approve of this? But then you were taught that it was right? and that's why mohammed wanted to show that you can have alot of wives but just 4 so you can be a little different, but then you could have all the slave girls you wanted. Nice harem.

No I'm not being mislead, it's you who are being mislead my brother and it's Believer who is trying to show you the way, but you are just not believing him. It's ok for you to stay within your religion, that is your right and your free will, but the perversion is incredible in islam and I fully reject it. Peace.