Christian/Muslim Threadsa must read
Didn't the revelations stop at the death of the prophet? when exactly do you think the companions and followers of the prophet were reciting the whole koran when the koran was revealed for 23 yrs right up till the death of Mohammed? Have you ever wondered why they are numerous repetitions in it? Do you know precisely when the koranic revelations stopped? If you do not know that koranic verses were being added right up to the death of the prophet how do you know it is complete? Why does the hadiths of Abu Uaid al qasim Sallam and other scholars have: 'Umar is recorded as saying that much of the Koran has disappeared. Ai'sha ways that sura 33 used to have 200 verses, but much of it has been lost, are you going to tell me this is a lie? Ibn Ka'b says that Sura 33 had as many verses as sura 2 (i.e. at least 200 verses), and included the verses on stoning [NB: as the Sura 33 has 73 verses today.] Did the companions recite all 200 verses or 73 verses, at what point did it become 73 instead of the original 200? or are you going to tell me this is a lie purported by non muslims? 'Uthman also refers to the missing verses on the stoning of adulterers (several different Hadith all report this). Ibn Ka'b and al-Khattab differed over whether Sura 33:6 was part of the Koran or not. Several people (Abu Waqid al-Laithi, Abu Musa al-Ash'ari, Zaid b. Arqam, and Jabir b. 'Abdallah) remember an aya about humans being greedy which is not now in the Koran. Ibn Abbas confesses to hearing things and not knowing if they were part of the Koran or not. Abi Ayyub b. Yunus reports a verse that he read in A'isha's codex that is not now in the Koran, and adds that A'isha accused 'Uthman of having altered the Koran. ' Adi b. 'Adi comment on the existence an other missing verses, the previous existence of which was confirmed by Zaid ibn Thabit. 'Umar questioned the loss of another verse, and was informed by 'Abd ar-Rahman b. 'Auf that "It dropped out among what dropped from the Koran." So all these stories have no foundation whatsoever and have been purported by islamophobes instead of reknowned islamic scholars? Remember all these occurred several years after Mohammed's death in AD633 at what point did he validate and authenticate any of their korans when this happened?
Uthmann told Zaid to collect the koran because he feared "much of the koran will be lost" in light of what I have posted above what type of apologetic acrobatics do you need to do to shift focus on what the word in bold means? Here again is the relevant hadith : "bukhari 6 201 (Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari: Abu Bakr sent for me after the casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said: "Umar has come to me and said, the People have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama and I am afraid that there will be some casualties among the Qurra (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other places, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost..." I think I should let you know now I will no longer read any of your links, you need no more than 3 lines to say why Abu Bakr and the uthman event are alledgedly seen as two different collections, the reasons why I ask you these questions are very simple if you were to answer them instead of referring to a link your logical fallacies would be exposed so instead of answering a straight forward question you try to be evasive and refer to a homepage of an islamic apologetic website and say 'go read', I recall the last time I asked you several questions regarding the contents of your links you were pasting you didn't answer a single one, ofcourse there were not your point of view, we don't know what your point of view really is, all you do is refer to an islamic apologetic site, I shall show you just an example further down with one of your replies why you use this evasive tactic it is obvious you are unable to defend your religion or it's theology with your logic and your scriptures alone.
Bear in mind the problem with christians and jews is one on interpretation you on the other hand will claim they corrupted their books, but when it suits you can claim they have some truths.
Do you have a logical reason why God would tell the jews 5,000 years ago not to eat the flesh of swine? compare that to a logical reason why God would ask his followers to fast during the month of ramadan? or throw stones at the devil or circumnavigate the ka'ba or bow down towards it.
Read my first post, the more you keep parrotting this the more I realise you need to to believe it.
Th first quote in bold is christianity summed up in a nutshell, what you said after that about disbelief equalling the antithesis of good works does not make any sense if you are saying good works will not guarantee you getting into heaven (christianity) but disbelief will make sure you don't get into heaven (islam) surely you can do good works with belief and still not get into heaven (islam) then what good is it to you. What do you mean by except God grants them leave, God grants them leave for what to disbelieve in him or to associate partners with him? Explain this from the previous revelations: "Lev26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." Suppose this scripture is true what are you doing bowing down to the ka'ba?
It seems after all this posts you don't see my point of view at all, the writers of this article; what are they using to determine the nature of satan?...your koran and your sunnah if they are not using the koran and sunnah they are not for want of a better word kosher.
You are ofcourse equating associating God having a Son with hate for God? what if the christian scripture is true couldn't the other be said about islam that it is actually hating God by claiming God doesn't love us to the extent of dying for us?
If it is in your holy books and it is in your koran thats enough evidence for me.
Why have you tried to be deceptive with this hadith why did you omit the beginning of it, it is very clear this hadith is about internal muslim fighting and no way implies they were under persecution if anything it colludes the hadiths of tabari that the muslims were the instigators this is the beginning of it you omitted: Narrated Nafi': During the affliction of Ibn Az-Zubair, two men came to Ibn 'Umar and said, "The people are lost, and you are the son of 'Umar, and the companion of the Prophet, so what forbids you from coming out?" He said, "What forbids me is that Allah has prohibited the shedding of my brother's blood." They both said, "Didn't Allah say, 'And fight then until there is no more affliction?" He said "We fought until there was no more affliction and the worship is for Allah (Alone while you want to fight until there is affliction and until the worship become for other than Allah." This is in mecca where Mohammed alledgedly had less than 50 followers, listen carefully to the words he says "give up their religion" were they being killed?, what was the nature of the persecution did it involve mass killings or was it draconian laws the muslims simply imposed on those same pagans when they grew in number such as not allowing non muslims to come to the ka'ba, I hope you are aware that people weren't killed in mecca, the pagans respected mecca not to spill blood. Compare this to the christians who were rounded up to be killed.
Jesus did not preach in secret, God's plan was for Jesus to fulfill what He said He would which involved dying for the sins of humanity to insinuate that Jesus would have led raids to capture women and children into slavery is an insult.
Are you sure? what does wa salem mean is this the same as salam? we can agree that alayhee salam means peace upon him or upon him be peace, but what does sala and wa salem mean?
I am neither jealous nor do I believe he was a prophet, in Mohammed's day an epileptic who collapses and the next minute looks fine better have a good reason for his strange behaviour or else he is going to be buried alive with the girl babies, what better way than to claim he is divinely inspired like all the other prophets, I believe he made a great deal up as he went along, and maybe sometimes he did hear and see things, that is nothing miraculous if you are aware of the occult, this day and age I have no doubt Mohammed would be in a psychiatric ward for schizophrenics or multiple personality disorders, any rational individual reading the koran and the hadiths can see this, do not be impressed by the fastings and the regular prayers spend time with a schizophrenic and you will realise how obsessively compulsive many of them are nothing divine about it. This is your classic evasive tactics, I asked you a simple question about sura 66 you refer me to a tafsir link if you had bothered to post the sura and the hadiths that relate to it you would have seen just how logically flawed it is, this is the incident and the verse in your koran I am talking about: sura 66:4 “If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly Allah is his Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who believe,- and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up.” Omar explains that these two women were Hafsa and Ayesha/aisha (child bride) who became disrespectful to the prophet causing him grieves until he thought of divorcing all of his wives [Many muslims are aware there was a time Mohammed wanted to divorce all his wives they will say with glee and pride that he wanted to divorce them because he didn't have enough money for their well being, in other words they will parrot whatever their imams and mullahs who know better say). Here is the full story. Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: I had been eager to ask 'Umar about the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet regarding whom Allah said (in the Qur'an saying): If you two (wives of the Prophet namely Aisha and Hafsa) turn in repentance to Allah your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes)[ what exactrly does the prophet like?] (66.4), till performed the Hajj along with 'Umar (and on our way back from Hajj) he went aside (to answer the call of nature) and I also went aside along with him carrying a tumbler of water. When he had answered the call of nature and returned. I poured water on his hands from the tumbler and he performed ablution. I said, "O Chief of the believers! ' Who were the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet to whom Allah said: 'If you two return in repentance (66.4)? He said, "I am astonished at your question, O Ibn 'Abbas. They were Aisha and Hafsa." Then 'Umar went on relating the narration and said. "I and an Ansari neighbor of mine from Bani Umaiya bin Zaid who used to live in 'Awali Al-Medina, used to visit the Prophet in turns. He used to go one day, and I another day. When I went I would bring him the news of what had happened that day regarding the instructions and orders and when he went, he used to do the same for me. We, the people of Quraish, used to have authority over women, but when we came to live with the Ansar, we noticed that the Ansari women had the upper hand over their men, so our women started acquiring the habits of the Ansari women. Once I shouted at my wife and she paid me back in my coin and I disliked that she should answer me back. She said, 'Why do you take it ill that I retort upon you? By Allah, the wives of the Prophet retort upon him, and some of them may not speak with him for the whole day till night.' What she said scared me and I said to her, 'Whoever amongst them does so, will be a great loser.' Then I dressed myself and went to Hafsa and asked her, 'Does any of you keep Allah's Apostle angry all the day long till night?' She replied in the affirmative. I said, 'She is a ruined losing person (and will never have success)! Doesn't she fear that Allah may get angry for the anger of Allah's Apostle and thus she will be ruined? Don't ask Allah's Apostle too many things, and don't retort upon him in any case, and don't desert him.[ For a sec look at the implications of such a statement stripped of all religious significance this is like allegiance to a mafia don] Demand from me whatever you like, and don't be tempted to imitate your neighbor (i.e. 'Aisha) in her behavior towards the Prophet), for she (i.e. Aisha) is more beautiful than you, and more beloved to Allah's Apostle. In those days it was rumored that Ghassan, (a tribe living in Sham) was getting prepared their horses to invade us. My companion went (to the Prophet on the day of his turn, went and returned to us at night and knocked at my door violently, asking whether I was sleeping. I was scared (by the hard knocking) and came out to him. He said that a great thing had happened. I asked him: What is it? Have Ghassan come? He replied that it was worse and more serious than that, and added that Allah's Apostle had divorced all his wives. I said, Hafsa is a ruined loser! I expected that would happen some day.' So I dressed myself and offered the Fajr prayer with the Prophet. Then the Prophet entered an upper room and stayed there alone. I went to Hafsa and found her weeping. I asked her, 'Why are you weeping? Didn't I warn you? Have Allah's Apostle divorced you all?' She replied, 'I don't know. He is there in the upper room.' I then went out and came to the pulpit and found a group of people around it and some of them were weeping. Then I sat with them for some time, but could not endure the situation. So I went to the upper room where the Prophet was and requested to a black slave of his: "Will you get the permission of (Allah's Apostle) for Umar (to enter)? The slave went in, talked to the Prophet about it and came out saying, 'I mentioned you to him but he did not reply.' So, I went and sat with the people who were sitting by the pulpit, but I could not bear the situation, so I went to the slave again and said: "Will you get he permission for Umar? He went in and brought the same reply as before. When I was leaving, behold, the slave called me saying, "Allah's Apostle has granted you permission." So, I entered upon the Prophet and saw him lying on a mat without wedding on it, and the mat had left its mark on the body of the Prophet, and he was leaning on a leather pillow stuffed with palm fires. I greeted him and while still standing, I said: "Have you divorced your wives?' He raised his eyes to me and replied in the negative. And then while still standing, I said chatting: "Will you heed what I say, 'O Allah's Apostle! We, the people of Quraish used to have the upper hand over our women (wives), and when we came to the people whose women had the upper hand over them..." 'Umar told the whole story (about his wife). "On that the Prophet smiled." 'Umar further said, "I then said, 'I went to Hafsa and said to her: Do not be tempted to imitate your companion ('Aisha) for she is more beautiful than you and more beloved to the Prophet.' The Prophet smiled again. When I saw him smiling, I sat down and cast a glance at the room, and by Allah, I couldn't see anything of importance but three hides. I said (to Allah's Apostle) "Invoke Allah to make your followers prosperous for the Persians and the Byzantines have been made prosperous and given worldly luxuries [am afraid allah/mohammed do not have such power], though they do not worship Allah?' The Prophet was leaning then (and on hearing my speech he sat straight) and said, 'O Ibn Al-Khatttab! Do you have any doubt (that the Hereafter is better than this world)? These people have been given rewards of their good deeds in this world only [You mean the persians and the byzantines have been given worldy luxuries for their good deeds? and history said they were idolators and obtained their wealth from innovation instead of booty].' I asked the Prophet . 'Please ask Allah's forgiveness for me[It's a pity muslims believe this man has the power to obtain forgiveness from God on their behalf]. The Prophet did not go to his wives because of the secret which Hafsa had disclosed to 'Aisha[You mean booty with no iddah or dowry and probaly forced booty at that that would make it rape??], and he said that he would not go to his wives for one month as he was angry with them when Allah admonished him (for his oath that he would not approach Maria). When twenty-nine days had passed, the Prophet went to Aisha first of all. She said to him, 'You took an oath that you would not come to us for one month, and today only twenty-nine days have passed, as I have been counting them day by day The Prophet said, 'The month is also of twenty-nine days.' That month consisted of twenty-nine days. 'Aisha said, 'When the Divine revelation of Choice was revealed, the Prophet started with me, saying to me, 'I am telling you something, but you needn't hurry to give the reply till you can consult your parents." 'Aisha knew that her parents would not advise her to part with the Prophet . The Prophet said that Allah had said:-- 'O Prophet! Say To your wives; If you desire The life of this world And its glitter, ... then come! I will make a provision for you and set you free In a handsome manner. But if you seek Allah And His Apostle, and The Home of the Hereafter, then Verily, Allah has prepared For the good-doers amongst you A great reward.' (33.28) 'Aisha said, 'Am I to consult my parents about this? I indeed prefer Allah, His Apostle, and the Home of the Hereafter.' After that the Prophet gave the choice to his other wives and they also gave the same reply as 'Aisha did." The above Hadith is significant as it contains two important historic points. First it reveals, by Omar’s own admission, that “Ansari women had the upper hand over their men”. Even if we consider that to be an exaggeration, it is clear that women in Medina had more rights and authority than their Quraishy counterparts. Mecca, the home of the Quraish tribe, where Omar and Muhammad came from was a religious hob. People living in religious towns are more bigots than those living in other cities. Religion has always played a role in subjugating women and taking away their human rights. So it is natural that women in Mecca were more subdued than those living anywhere else in Arabia and especially Medina that was a more cosmopolitan city having civilized nations like Jews and Christians as its inhabitants. Omar and Muhammad’s wives enjoyed this emancipating atmosphere and were starting to exercise their relative freedom. This attitude, of course, did not sit well with the two misogynist men of Mecca, namely Omar and Muhammad and as this Hadith demonstrates, they were angry of their wives newfound liberties and rebelliousness. The importance of this Hadith is in the fact that it proves that women prior to Islam had much more freedom, which was taken away from them by Muhammad and his misogynistic khalifas. It becomes clear that the deplorable status of women in Islam is not a divine verdict but a reflection of how women were treated in Mecca 1400 years ago. The fact that there is so much emphasis in Quran and in Ahadith about the importance of women being obedient to their husbands is indeed an indication of Muhammad’s own desire to control his young and rebellious wives. ( Q. 4: 34) The other important point of the above Hadith is that it reveals yet another scandal of the prophet. One-day Muhammad goes to his wife’s house Hafsa the daughter of Omar and finds her maid Mariah attractive. He sends Hafsa to Omar’s house, telling her that he wanted to see her. When Hafsa leaves, Muhammad takes Mariah to bed and has intercourse with her. Meanwhile Hafsa, who finds out that her father was not expecting her, returns home much sooner than expected, and to her chagrin finds her illustrious husband in bed with her maid. She becomes hysterical and forgetting the station of the prophet she shouts and causes a scandal. The prophet pleads with her to calm down and promises not to sleep with Mariah anymore and begs her also not to divulge this secret to anyone else. However, Hafsa would not control herself and relays everything to Aisha who also turns against the prophet and jointly with his other wives cause him much anguish. So the prophet decides to punish all of them and not sleep with any one of his wives for one month [The next time a cleric tells you the reason why Mohammed wanted to divorce his wives is because he didn't have any money at least you know the real reason]. Depriving one’s wives of your bed is the second grade of punishment recomended in Quran. The first level is admonishing, the second level is depriving them of intimacy and the third level of punishment is beating them. Q. 4: 34. Since this is the test case and anyone wondering why beating them is included in that sura here is the hadith SAHIH MUSLIM Book 009, #3506: Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: Abu Bakr came and sought permission to see Allah's Messenger. He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came 'Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah's Apostle sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet laugh, so he said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Kharija when she asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah's Messenger laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr then got up went to 'Aisha and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah's Messenger which he does not possess. They said: By Allah, we do not ask Allah's Messenger for anything he does not possess. Of course when a man decides to punish a wife with intimate deprivation he can satisfy himself with his other wives. But Muhammad’s anger had made him make the oath not to sleep with any of them for one month. That of course would have been too much of hardship for the beloved messenger of allah (peace be upon his immaculate soul), therefore allah in his mercy came to the aid of his prophet and revealed the Surah Tahrim (Banning). In this surah allah rebukes Muhammad for being hard on himself and for depriving himself from what he really likes and has been made lawful for him, in order to please his wives. This is the text of the Surah Tahrim: Q. 66: 1-5. 1. O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allâh has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 2. Allâh has already ordained for you (O men), the dissolution of your oaths. And Allâh is your Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.) and He is the All-Knower, the All-Wise. 3. And (remember) when the Prophet (SAW) disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his wives (Hafsah), so when she told it (to another i.e. 'Aishah), and Allâh made it known to him, he informed part thereof and left a part. Then when he told her (Hafsah) thereof, she said: "Who told you this?" He said: "The All-Knower, the All-Aware (Allâh) has told me". 4. If you two (wives of the Prophet SAW, namely 'Aishah and Hafsah turn in repentance to Allâh, (it will be better for you), your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet SAW likes), but if you help one another against him (Muhammad SAW), then verily, Allâh is his Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.), and Jibrael (Gabriel), and the righteous among the believers, and furthermore, the angels are his helpers. 5. It may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you, Muslims (who submit to Allâh), believers, obedient to Allâh, turning to Allâh in repentance, worshipping Allâh sincerely, fasting or emigrants (for Allâh's sake), previously married and virgins. “ Comment: Although Muhammad gave his word to Hafsa, not to have 'sex' with her maid he could not resist the temptation. Especially now that he had taken another oath not to sleep with all of his wives. It was a difficult situation and no one but Allah could help him. Well, nothing is impossible when you are the prophet of Allah. Leave everything in the hands of the allah and let him take care of it. And that is exactly what happened. Allah himself intervened and gave him the green light to follow his heart desire. In the Surah Tahrim allah licensed his beloved prophet to have his flings and not pay attention to his wives. What can a prophet ask more? allah was so concerned about Muhammad's carnal pleasures that he even allowed ALL MEN to break their oaths as a bounty. Alhamdulillah! AllahuAkbar! Subhanillah. Isn't Allah great? It is also worthy of mention that Muhammad who came to know that Hafsa did reveal the secret to Aisha, lied to her by pretending that it was Allah who told him so (Ayat 3) while he actually learned it from Ayisha. But of course Muhammad is not the author of Quran. It is Allah himself who is lying for his prophet. In reaction to the above verses, Aisha, who was not only young and pretty but also clever, is reported to have said to Muhammad, "Your God indeed rushes in coming to your aid!" The above story must have been also embarrassing for Muhammad’s followers even when they gobbled mindlessly everything he told them. So they made other hadithes to explain those verses of Quran that were already explained by Qmar. Sahih Muslim Book 009, Number 3496: 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) narrated that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) used to spend time with Zainab daughter of Jahsh and drank honey at her house. She ('A'isha further) said: I and Hafsa agreed that one whom Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) would visit first should say: I notice that you have an odour of the Maghafir (gum of mimosa). He (the Holy Prophet) visited one of them and she said to him like this, whereupon he said: I have taken honey in the house of Zainab bint Jabsh and I will never do it again. It was at this (that the following verse was revealed): 'Why do you hold to be forbidden what Allah has made lawful for you... (up to). If you both ('A'isha and Hafsa) turn to Allah" up to:" And when the Holy Prophet confided an information to one of his wives" (lxvi. 3). This refers to his saying: But I have taken honey. The existence of the above Hadith and its difference with the one narrated by Omar reveals yet another fact that the companions of Muhammad were willing to lie, (as Muslims are today) to preserve the image of their prophet from blemish. It would be foolish to accept the excuse of drinking honey to justify those Ayat. First of all honey does not smell bad. But above all it is inconceivable that a trivial incident like drinking honey could cause such an upheaval in the household of the prophet to the extent that he decides to divorce all of his wives or to punish them for one month by not sleeping with them. Could such an insignificant incident like drinking honey provoke so much uproar that the creator of this universe had to intervene with a warning to Muhammad’s wives that Muhammad would divorce all of them and He (Allah) would give him virgin and faithful wives? This explanation is absurd unless honey is the code for something else that the prophet (peace be upon his immaculate soul found with Maryah)
Your point of view to others this is a bare faced lie. |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame