Good post littleshepard!
Peace humble guest,
Yes I know that. What vexes me is why wasn’t anyone furiously writing everything that Jesus said and did down while he was still on Earth? Why leave tens of years (I’d like to see your evidence that it was in ~50AD) of doubt until any written account was endeavored?
We only know what we can find so far.
What we have was not written long after Jesus lived.
Now what is the ine Gospels is not myths or pagan, as what we read is traceable to OT prophecy which is a powerful way to authenticate the Gospels.
You wouldn't think that?
Nobody said anything about frivolous myths and stories. For one thing, there would be no need to make up myths or anything like that because the society at the time was highly philosophized with strong pagan elements. Second of all, the virgin birth of Jesus (pbuh) was a powerful, powerful miracle which not many understood. Add that to the ambiguity surrounding the events of the alleged crucifixion and you have A LOT of questions which Jesus is no longer present to answer. This is the danger of having a Scripture be written AFTER the disappearance of the Messenger, because the Messenger never had a chance to authorize what was said and verify it. The most reliable Scripture is written during the life of the messenger, authenticated by him, and transmitted in that way to the present day.
As God told us that His revelations always return to Him fruitful and fulflill His Will, why do you lack so much faith friend??? You need faith to begin with to believe in God.
You're sounding alot like Atheists and Agnostics.
I really want you to understand this. This isn’t about taking as true whichever version of the story was CLOSEST to the events. It’s about taking as truth ALL divine revelation. You need to carefully study the Qur’an to realize why people believed it was divine before even reading what it contains, simply because of how it was revealed and the nature of its transmission. When you have the word of God tell you how the Universe was created, even if that’s millions or billions of years later, you hold the Truth regardless of time. You think the Bible holds a more accurate account simply because it was written earlier? Would you say that Zoroastrian Scripture which describes fantastic, mythical ways in which the Universe was created is more accurate than the Torah? Or do you take the latter as Truth because you know it’s divinely revealed?
The more authentic and reliable something is, the closer to the event it is. That is the truth.
God gives us a mind to use for analyzing, and people neevr hear alot of Jesus's childhood in the Gospels, so they get curious and make up stuff to appease theire curiostiy, and lo and behold the Quran has baby stories of Jesus! What is a good mind to make of this???
God does protect his word. God insures that people have been worshipping Him and submitting to him Alone since the time of Adam. The Message has always been preserved, but if people don’t guard their Scriptures as rigorously as they’re supposed to, they devise a great sin because they are being negligent. They will lose or distort the message while others still carry it.
Now see, you think the Message became distorted over time, but you are dead wrong. I can see how very true the Gospels are as they confirm what the Prophets said. It's not all bout people worshipping God, God had a very advanced plan that was revealed in the Gospels.
Since you lack spiritual insight, you can not to see this.
In matters of religion you can’t leave ANYTHING to doubt. The FIRST thing you should do when you choose to believe in God and live your life according to His Will is to ask yourself “how do I know that I’m reading the word of God”. You have to use your intellect and make sure that the words you are reading came out of a Prophet’s mouth. Any ounce of doubt means that one is being seriously misled.
Well, I don't have even an ounce of doubt.
What you say is true, but what about baby stories of Jesus from flaky apocryphal gospels??? The Infancy Gospels were written too late to even be considered as a nook of the Bible. Such stories were nonexistent until they were favbricated and written down. Clearly the Quran has myths, that is a reality.
Unless you cannot disprove what I have said, you're arguments againt the Gospels are null because you're not applying the same logic to your beliefs.
Believer, I seriously want you to read the book I’ve suggested for this exact reason. Most people think that people have been believing in the Trinity for 570 years and then all of a sudden the QUr’an is revealed. That is absolutely not true. Trinitarian and Unitarian Christians were at war with each other for hundreds of years between Jesus’ revelations and the Qur’an. Haven’t you ever wondered why practically 99% of the Christians of the middle east immediately converted to Islam when it was revealed? It was because they were already Unitarian Christians and the Qur’an fit perfectly with the true doctrine of Jesus they had preserved. There’s so much history here I wish you would just take the time to read the book for a clear perspective.
Every Christians believed that Jesus was the Lord and the Spirit was from God, and the Father was God, Sure a formal definition of the Trinity was compiled an Nicaea, but that doesn't mean it was invented.
Arius was a heretical bishop that started this big Unitarian thing.
He taught that Jesus was the highest created being, but not God.
Islam was influenced by the Arian heresy.
Alot heretical Christians sought refuge in the East, and they had various unusual beliefs. Plus they were pressured to convert to Islam. But certainly 99% didn't convert. Armenian Christians are true Christians and they do not convert to Islam.
Interesting how you say the Unitarians kept the "true doctrine of Jesus" when they were an heretical group that emerged later. You use so much backwards logic, well that will not give you a clear unbiased view on things.
Bro, I wish you’d make a serious effort to study the Qur’an because otherwise I think you’re being misled by people who want nothing more than to leave you in darkness. Nothing can be PROVEN to be the word of God, but the Qur’an is by far the best preserved and most miraculous of all Scriptures. Its revelations are evaluated against this criteria, not whether you think they are flaky. And most definitely if you study how it was revealed you would know that an unlettered man (and I contend even a literate and learned man) could not have produced such a work in however many years, with all its eloquence, consistency, prophecy, and miracles.
I have done research and have compared Quran writings with historical preserved apocryphal writings and I have found that such stories are identical. I'm not following some misleading evidence.
If the Quran as preserved, well so were many acient writings both religious and secular. Your "proofs" for the Quran are not at all poof to me. Again, Islam leaves alot unaccounted.
Unless you can show me a piece of the original Quran that Muhammed wrote down, cave scribbling or a rock or on animal hides of whatever...then well you don't have the original Quran.
That’s not true, bro. The only major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Trinity and Salvation. Wouldn’t you agree that Islam and Judaism are much closer about the Divine Unity and Salvation than is Christianity and Judaism?
There are superficial similiarities between Islam and Judaism, but it ends there. The two closest religions are Chritianity and Judaism.
No where in Judaism is God even referred to as single in unity.
God is seen as a great mystery, and He revealed Himself to Moses as "I am who I man"
Your views of salvation are of Persian origin.
Zoroastrians believe that those who do good deeds go to heaven, and those with less good deeds than bad deeds go to hell.
Islam reminds me alot of the Persian religion.
Absolutely man, and look at how many deviant faiths there exist after Christianity AND Islam that undermine both of their messages. However, God always demands of his worshippers that they use their intellect. Your perspective is “well the Bible says that anyone who doesn’t agree with the Bible is bringing a false Gospel from Satan” But you first have to consider whether the Bible itself did not accurately transmit Jesus’ teachings and YET had the disclaimer “anyone who doesn’t agree with the Bible is bringing a false Gospel from Satan” then you have people locked in a faith obliviously batting away true guidance just because it doesn’t match their idea. Before you base your life on a text, you have to test it to verify it is from God. You can’t just pick up what your parents picked up and follow it because it says “everything else is false”. Everyone is accountable for putting in an effort to know what they are reading and what they COULD be reading. And to be honest with you, you have a tragically warped account of the Qur’an because you’ve been collecting libelous accusations about it from all the apologetic work you’ve been reading. Instead of doing objective analysis, you’re just building an insurmountable wall of spurious bias against it.
I have dome my research and have used my intellect and have seen that Christianity is the Truth, and have seen that Islam is not true because of the Quran's misconceptions. Misconceptions and ingorance are from Satan, God is not like that.
I know that there is a Son of Man in heaven that is being worshipped by the people, and I know there is a great King that sits next to God. These things were revealed before Jesus came and the Gospels shows me exactly what all of this means, it's Jesus Christ. Islam doesn't tell you anything about what was formerly revealed.
Of course I’ve considered this! Do you know how many religions have emerged after Islam? Everyone needs to guard the truth from false prophets and deviation, that’s a given. But the definition of “deviation” can’t just be “anything other than what I’m reading”. I believe in the Qur’an because I am sure it is revelation, not just because it warns believers to guard against deviance and other false prophets because EVERY faith will warn against that. You should do the same and think critically and logically. Anyone can add a disclaimer “and anything else that is said is false” in fact everyone’s scripture says that. So you first have to know for sure that YOU in fact are holding the Truth to begin with.
Sorry to break it to you, but the Quran greatly deviates from Judeo-Christianity. It wanes more to Persian conception of God and salvation, and apocryphal beliefs surrounding the Prophets.
But this is exactly what people starting to think AFTER Jesus (pbuh) left the Earth. They couldn’t handle the virgin birth as MERELY a miracle, and when they were unsure about the events of the crucifixion they were overwhelmed and wanted to explain it theologically. You have to know what Jesus (pbuh) said about God for sure, you have to know how Jesus spoke, lived, worshipped and how everyone living around him did these things while he was on earth. You can’t rely on a Scripture he had never seen before, written years after he was gone, he had to have witnessed it to make sure it contained absolutely ZERO deviance.
God does NOT work parlour tricks!
All that God does has a very significant purpose.
Jesus's virgin birth had deep significance.
He was a man not from this world, not a part of mankind.
The events if the crucifixion are given in Pslam 22 and Isaiag 53. Nothing about it was inventd, all revealed.
But did you read the alternative interpretations of those verses? Their claims go all the way down to incorrect translations.
Psalm 80:17 talks about a SOn of Man that was raised to God's right hand. Checkh that out, seems consitent with Psalm 110:1.
All of this fits Jesus of the Gospels very well!
Only God can explain the miracle of the virgin birth to mankind as revelation. One shouldn’t deduce that the virgin birth meant preexistence if God did not reveal it so. The virgin birth is one of the most powerful signs of the coming of the Messiah, it did not indicate of itself any preexistence. Adam was created without a mother or father. Eve was created without a mother. Jesus was created without a father. These are all miracles of creation and signs, but men have interpreted more into that than God has revealed.
Understand, humble, that Jesus was not created by two sex cells.
Jesus was not related to any human being in this world.
Jesus was a purely heavenly being that transcended into our world.
Jesus even tell us that He is not from this world.
Actually if you read the book it talks a lot about Jesus in the hadith texts, stories you would be most interested to read. Also, the QUr’an reveals the most critical element about faith relating to Jesus. He is the Messiah, Messenger, but is not to be worshipped.
Funny considering many people worshipped Jesus while He lived, and Daniel sees a vision of the Son of Man being worsipped by the nations and peoples.
Obviously the Hadiths are wrong and Jesus is to be worshipped.
May the Lord guide you always.