Christian/Muslim Threadsa must readActually, in your entire paragraph there’s only one thing that’s true. And that is that the only thing that was made without prophetic advice is the actual order of the arrangement of the Qur’an. The order of the Chapters is not the chronology of when they were revealed though the times and places of their revelation is recorded. But the order of the Surahs actually has no bearing on the Qur’an. I highly recommend this site: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ No I haven’t. The word of God ALWAYS supercedes the word of man, even if the word of man is closer to the event. Only when you have two conflicting accounts BETWEEN the words of men, should you look to proximity. Also the allegation that the “fables” are incorporated verbatim is preposterous if you mean there were written in the same style and language. I hate to break it to you, but just because someone “proclaims” their authenticity comes directly from Mohammad doesn’t make it authentic! See my above post about hadith and verifying authenticity, bro. First of all, the “pagan arabs” weren’t the only ones to have the true message of His Word. God’s Message has been preserved from Adam through to Muhammad in terms of the Divine Unity. The star worshipping pagan Arabs REVERTED to Islam, they didn’t claim to have had Islam revealed to them. In addition, the reason you see the pagans having practiced a form of the pilgrimage and circumnavigation is this (from another post): So in fact the pagans had incorporated what they had seen the descendents of Ishmael do, except they were using a garbled version of them to worship their false gods. In addition, we know that the Message given to Moses was distinct from the one given to Muhammad i.e. Islam with all its rites was not revealed to Moses. However, theologically Moses and all the Messengers and Prophets received and transmitted the same message of Divine Unity and submission to God. The only difference were the details and demands of some rites (for example the Jews were directed to worship towards Jerusalem). Jesus (pbuh) was sent as a Messenger to return the children of Israel to the way of Moses and the laws revealed to him, as they had strayed therefrom. For one thing, nobody said that the two previous revelations were corrupted simultaneously. In fact, one of the reasons the Jews did not all recognize Jesus to be the Messiah is because their texts had changed with regard to the descriptions of the Messiah. They had a different set of criteria by that time. In addition, when you ask why God did not protect his previous revelations it’s like asking “why did God even have to send more than one Messenger?” That’s exactly like questioning God’s plan to begin with and saying “why not one messenger, one single revelation, preserved through time”. We know, however, the Message of God regarding His Divine Unity HAS been preserved since Adam while the rites of faith differed between the peoples of different messengers and prophets though they shared a central core. Islam as a final testament and its rites was revealed not to the Arabs but to mankind. The Qur’an states several times that Muhammad (pbuh) and the Qur’an were revelations to mankind, not any given people or time. Just observe how you test divine revelation by asking “would a God REALLY do this?” Demoting the commandments of God to the rationality of man. Once you determine what is the word of God, there is no logical alternative to submission thereto. Also, I’m not going to even begin to argue how your comments on abrogation are out of context. The problem is even more fundamental than that, I’m not sure you know what abrogation entails: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/abrogate.html http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... eller.html In addition, the references to local events in the Arabian peninsula are obviously in the context of the life of the Prophet (pbuh). The theological aspects have nothing to do with these descriptions and that’s why they’re universal. I’m so glad you pointed this out. It’s relieving because it shows me that you don’t in fact know much about the Qur’an. First of all, the speaker in that verse is God. Second of all, and this I’m quoting from a previous post:
Most critically, how many believed in the Divine Unity? The true followers of Jesus would not be considered Mushrikeen even AFTER Islam was revealed and the Qur’an states that they would not have anything to fear: Surely, those who believe and the Jews, and the Nasara (those who followed Jesus’ true message), whosoever believes in God and the Last Day and performs deeds of righteousness, they shall have their reward with their Lord, no fear shall be on them, nor shall they grieve (Qur’an 2:62) In addition, you claim that the entire Middle East converted from Unitarian Christianity to Islam because of a tax? I’m not going to even comment on this argument when you’re purporting to come from a logical perspective. All I can tell you is that before any such tax was levied tens of years after Islam, there were mass reversions. But what exactly IS this tax of which you’re speaking? You must mean the Jizya tax, a tax charged ONLY of adult male non-muslims who chose not to fight in the army of the state. Interestingly enough, the amount of the tax was NO MORE THAN the amount paid as obligatory alms by the Muslims of the state. So basically you’re saying that a Unitarian Christian man reverted to Islam to have to pay at least as much as he would normally be asked to pay? Or even better, than a Unitarian Christian woman reverted to Islam so that she would pay obligatory alms whereas as before she was not obliged to pay anything? This is incredible. I am currently reading the text “Sirat al Nabi and the Orientalists volumes A and B” which discusses this very issue. All I can say is that it is by far the weakest argument ever proposed. Some have even claimed that the subject of the Qur’an changes as the pages of the scribes were being flipped over and the backs were omitted. The best part of these conjectures is that they are laced with “may have been, one wonders whether” not only because there is no evidence of any such accounts but also because it’s blatantly, from an academic standpoint, a form of filibustering with idle suppositions. The Prophecies of the Qur’an, apart from the scientific miracles and the prophecies in hadith: Understandable summary: http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/ ... rophecies/ Some elaboration http://www.islamicweb.com/quran/prophecies.htm http://www.understanding-islam.com/rela ... scatid=149 Don’t mix religion with politics. There’s no reason for anyone to hate the Jews and the fact that you find people who do doesn’t speak about the closeness of the faiths. There are Christians who burn crosses and have killed people of different races and so on, let’s not identify a faith by a minority of its adherents. Also, “Islamic” countries don’t even exist and haven’t existed since 1924, those countries of the middle east are run by Arabs, not Muslims. The wars have been fought over political reasons and arguments over land and the oppression of people. One should then ask how much of today’s Judaism has to do with the ways of Abraham and Moses. The difference is that Judaism is acknowledged to have come from a named Messenger with a named revelation. Are you being serious here? The gospels are not self-contradictory? The reason most people like to change their names to ISLAMIC names (written in Arabic but not Arabic in nature) is because those names are usually the names of the Prophets in Arabic, or are a derivation of the word “hamd” to worship, or they mean “servant of [attribute of God]” and similar reasons. The words are by no means Arabic, since the pagan arabs used to name each other with frivolous names like “dog” or “horse fly”. In addition, women are not and should not be forced to wear hijab. Those who do wear it by choice, and IF they are forced, they shouldn’t be because that’s oppressive, and the Qur’an overtly forbids that. On the contrary, the pagan arabs detested the head scarf as much as you do. If you study most of the pagan arabs prior to Islam, they were serious fornicators and had little tolerance for women who did not expose themselves or “share” themselves communally. When someone wants to be precise, they go to the Arabic Qur’an because that is the language it was revealed in and it is the most precise. The Qur’an word choice is so careful and profound you could only appreciate it if you studied it but the message is nonetheless the same even if it is properly translated. Plus most of my friends who don’t speak Arabic endeavor to learn the Qur’an in Arabic, and even if they don’t speak Arabic, they try to understand the meaning of the Qur’an from the Arabic text. Most reverts do the same but that doesn’t mean one cannot read and believe in their own languages. I think you misunderstand the purpose of legalism. Living by the word of God is the ultimate expression of submission to God, it is the ultimate trust in revelation. Most people think it suffices to believe but are not able or willing to completely submit themselves to God’s commandments because they deem it too difficult for them or because they love the world too much. However, the best belief is inward and outward expression thereof, and this is by emulating the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the benchmark for humanity in his words and actions and lifestyle. http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/ That’s one of the miracles of the Qur’an: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Miracle/ It is understandable by a child, but can be understood on so many levels. Anyone can understand the central message of Islam though just by reading the translation. We believe the Qur’an is from God for several reasons beyond the eloquence and miracles. Look at its Messenger (pbuh) and its pristine transmission as well. Actually, famous Arabs often plagiarized the Qur’an in THEIR poetry, but read the above site for more info, especially on things like what you’re claiming: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... Bqais.html The words for “recite” and “read” are the same word in Arabic, actually. So what you’re look at are the differences in translation. Why do you think Jesus was such a threat to the Jewish elite? Because he was sent with knowledge of the true Testament from God which the Jews had not preserved. It threatened their monopoly of interpretation and their secured way of life and not unlikely insulted them that Jesus (pbuh) would know more than them even as a youth. You do realize of course that the meanings of the verses, the exegeses, were explained by the Messenger. That’s where most exegeses comes from and that’s the point of Messengers coming with Scripture instead of the Scripture just materializing. The reason your statement is incoherent is because it’s asking whether there is an alternative explanation to the one given by the Messenger of the Qur’an itself. Have you ever noticed how every such instance brought an exception to a general rule for the sake of leniancy or broke a misconception which the pagan Arabs had? Absolutely not, please read my above posts and links about the hadiths and how they are NOT all the same authenticity and were NOT all transmitted by the same people, especially not the same as those who transmitted the Qur’an. Did you even read what I wrote about the G of B? I didn’t even GIVE that rationale, go scroll back up to read the about the significance of the G of B. Well one should always ask someone with more knowledge: “then ask those who possess the Message (Ahl adh-Dhikr) if you do not know.” (Soorah 21:7 and 16:43) And your three following statements after that are just incorrect. http://www.understanding-islam.com/rela ... on&qid=286 Peace bro, |
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