Christian/Muslim ThreadsMuhammad on trial: Part 1.H2O wrote:
The meaning of Khitbah or as translated a proposal is for the man to make his intention known that he wants to marry a certain girl. The proposal can take place by the boy approaching the girl’s Wali (guardian) and making known his intention to marry. Or he can via his family make the request for marriage. There are no specific words one uses for the Khitbah or specific procedure. Shari’ah leaves the options open.
Remember, the proposal is not the marriage, but the making known of the intention to marry. The boy and girl still remain as non-Mahrams.
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Shaykh Irshad Amod
AL-FALAAH COLLEGE
CHECKED & APPROVED: Mufti Ebrahim Desai
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=14309
Your grand mufti also believes Aisha was six when she 'married' your prophet, and nine when this 'marriage' was consumated:
3. Hadhrat Aaisha (Radhiallaahu Anha) was married at the age of six. The Ahaadith pertaining to this are in Bukhari and Muslim, all the narrators of these Ahaadith are authentic.
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Mufti Ebrahim Desai
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=6778
Surely you can do better than this?
BTW I also looked up the varying meanings of Nikah in relation to marriage/marriage contract/consumation/engagement/betrothal...
"Nikah is an Arabic term used for marriage. It means "contract". ("Aqd in Arabic). The Quran specifically refers to marriage as "mithaqun Ghalithun,". Which means "a strong agreement".
http://www.nikahsearch.com/marriage/definition.htm
Another word in the list of serious intentional mistranslation is the Arabic word “Nikah.” The word has been translated as “marriage.” But those who understand Arabic know that this is not the exact meaning of the word. There is another word that is normally translated as marriage, and correctly so. It is the Arabic word “Zawag.”...What exactly does “Nikah” mean? The word Nikah doesn’t exactly mean “Marriage.” Let’s explore what the word means from the classical Islamic reference books according to the opinion of recognized Islamic scholars...Linguistically, “Nikah” means embracing or penetrating. When it is pronounced “Nokh” it refers to a woman’s vagina. It is mainly used in the context of “sexual intercourse.” When it was used in reference to marriage it is because sex is a necessity in marriage. Al Fassi said,”If someone says a certain man (N) a certain woman, it means he married her, and if he says a man (N) his wife, it means he has sexual intercourse with her...The Shafia and Hanafi schools of jurisprudence assert that the word nikah when used as a fact conveys that sexual intercourse has occurred. And when used as a figure of speech it denotes marriage. The reason for this variance is because it is offensive to mention the word “intercourse,” so a metonymic word is used to substitute it
http://www.islamreview.com/articles/nikah.shtml
Nikah means 'to unite' in Arabic
http://www.svcn.com/archives/sunnyvales ... over.shtml
http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405et2.htm
Jurists are in unanimous agreement on the fact that nikah means sexual intercourse and that it is used to denote the marriage contract as a figure of speech because the marriage contract is the legal means for having intercourse.(2) Nikah is permissible only after the marriage contract, concluded between the bridegroom and the bride (al-`aqidan),
http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405et2.htm
In light of this, this is what is being implied by the hadiths:
Aishah, may God be pleased with her, narrated that the Prophet(P) was betrothed (zawaj) to her when she was six years old and he consummated (nikah) his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years. (Sahîh al-Bukhârî, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64)
Hence your nikah interpolations for your documents B, C and D are in error:
Document B
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married (Nikah) me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
Document C
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 Narrated 'Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) (Nikah) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Document D
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married (Nikah) her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
should read:
Document B
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old (then Nikah took place)
Document C
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 Narrated 'Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old (then Nikah took place) and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Document D
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old (then Nikah took place), and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Again it is obvious marriage contract/betrothal/engagement are used interchangeably, you do not have a leg to stand on.
I would like you to answer a simple question where in any of the hadiths it names the place where the engagement/marriage contract/betrothal took place (mecca or medina) and how does this help you that she was not six years old at the time of this engagement and nine when this 'marriage' was consumated?
No jury in a court of law would accept your testimony of one verse taken out of context in the light of multiple witnesses attesting to the same thing:
First Islamic source: Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old child
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236: Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
Second Islamic source: Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old child
Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Third Islamic source: Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old child
Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65: Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'
Fourth Islamic source: Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old child
Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88: Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Fifth Islamic source: Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old child
Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
Sixth Islamic source: Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old child
Dawud Book 41, Number 4915: Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.
Seventh Islamic source: Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old child
Dawud Book 41, Number 4916: Narrated AbuUsamah: The tradition mentioned above (No. 4915) has also been transmitted by AbuUsamah in a similar manner through a different chain of narrators. This version has: "With good fortune. " She (Umm Ruman) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and redressed me. No one came to me suddenly except the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) in the forenoon. So they entrusted me to him
Eighth Islamic source: Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old child
Dawud Book 41, Number 4917: Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine.
In addition more than 11 travelling companions of Mohammed report the same story, not counting other major companions and other major successors that reported it directly from Aisha, if this was a trial your prophet would be hung, drawn, and quartered by now as a paedophile.
I would also like you to read this extract, rather than vent off steam in some phantom morally righteous rage (let's face it you are here defending someone who had sexual intercourse with a 9 year pre-pubescent girl) read it carefully and notice the traits that define a paedophile:
Aisha was the daughter of Abdullah Ibn Abu Qahafa, popularly known as Abu Bakr, Father of the virgin she-camel, an appellation people gave him after he gave his child in marriage to a fifty- plus year old Muhammad. Being a friend of Abu Bakr, Muhammad had the privilege to visit his house anytime he wished. In course of those visits, child Aisha became accustomed to him, whose presence gave her delight and brought her "something of the joy of the Paradise." In his "miraculous touch, the sensation of joy," she narrated later, "was even tangible" (Martin Lings, op. cit. p. 133).
We believe that during his frequent visits to Abu Bakr's house, Muhammad developed a sexual relationship with their daughter Aisha. For doing it, he, at first, made use of his fearsome character to control the child's mind. Gradually, herself overtaken by the "sensation of joy" that his "touch" gave her, and also prevented by his order not to let anyone know what he had been doing to her, she refrained all along from divulging the secret to others. Her parents might have recognized what had been going on between her and Muhammad, and they might also have made her confess the truth to them, but his strong influence over them, as well as their own future plan prevented them from taking any action against their child's molester.
Over a period of time, Muhammad became fully infatuated with the child due to the fact that he could "play with her and she with him." This confession on Muhammad's part led some writers to confirm that he had a physical relationship with Aisha before he married her (See Thomas W. Lippman, Understanding Islam, p. 54). Fed up with the secrecy with which he had been satisfying his lascivious nature, he decided to marry the six-year old child.
The Arabian traditions permitted child marriages, but the marriage of a six-year old child with a fifty-plus year old man was not common. With a view to overcoming people's criticism, Muhammad came up with a brilliant idea. It was a dream that he made use of to justify his otherwise unpardonable marriage with a child.
One day he told everyone that he had a dream in which he saw a man carrying someone wrapped in a piece of silk. The man said to Muhammad" "This is thy wife; so uncover her." He lifted the silk and, lo! There was Aisha." Inadvertently, the narrator of the dream left for us a clue that indicates Aisha's real age at the time Muhammad had developed for her his sexual infatuation: A man would ordinarily carry an infant, wrapped up in a piece of silk or cloth, and not a grown up child who is able to walk.
He interpreted the dream to be a divine command for him to marry the child. In compliance, he betrothed her when she was a six-year old child. The betrothal removed the difficulty that he faced hitherto before in engaging the child in acts that gratified his sexual fantasies.
Following the betrothal, Muhammad's non-penile sexual relationship with Aisha continued for over two years. It had a brief break when he migrated to Medina. Within a year of his arrival there, Aisha also moved to Medina along with her family members. Soon after her arrival, Muhammad formalized his marriage, and took Aisha to his house. Aisha was nine and her husband fifty-three years old.
The young age of the bride notwithstanding, Muslim writers maintain that Muhammad had married Aisha because she was clever and learned (Abdullah Yusuf Ali, op. cit, vol. 2, p. 1113). He had judged her qualities with his prophetic eyes. After being convinced by her extraordinary qualities, he decided that he should marry her first, and then equip her with his teachings, which he expected her to relate to the posterity after his death. Because Muhammad had reposed his complete trust in her, she is universally referred to as Ummul Momenin, the mother of the Muslims. Most Muslim theologians, scholars as well as their ordinary cotemporaries consider her to be an authority not only on hadiths, but also on the details of her husband's entire life.
Not knowing what level of learnedness a nine year old child could have acquired in an environment in which facilities for imparting education did not at all exist, we assert that what we have stated in the foregoing paragraphs of this presentation was the reason for which Muhammad married Aisha at such a young age. It was all about fulfilling his sexual lasciviousness. Her presumed intelligence and learnedness played no role whatsoever in the marriage.
After she had grown up, Aisha, we believe, resented not only her childhood marriage with Muhammad; she also hated him for not being able to satisfy her sexual needs. The fact that she supported Hafsah in her confrontation with Muhammad on a supposedly sex-related dispute lends credence to our theory (66:4). She stood on Hafsah's side to vent her anger at what he had done to her in her childhood, as well as for what she was going through then in her sex life.
For so long as Muhammad and other fearful stalwarts of Islam lived, she dared not revolt against all those who supported all the misdeeds of her husband. Ali's assumption of power of the Caliph gave her the chance. She revolted against him, and fought a pitch battle against the Muslim forces. Though she was defeated, yet she is believed to have caused more trouble among the Muslims than all the pagan Quraishites combined together (cf. R. V. C. Bodley, op. cit. p. 147).
Readers would be confused by our above assertions. With a view to putting their perplexity to rest, we need to mention the following historical fact:
Muhammad had six children from Khudeija. Three of them were male and they died in their infancy. Subsequent to Khudeija's death, he took at least ten wives. Almost all of them were in their childbearing ages. Despite this fact, none of them bore him a child. In our judgment it was his impotency that had prevented his wives from conceiving, and enjoying the pleasures of motherhood.
Muhammad's sexual impotency has always remained a well-guarded secret. To prevent it from ever becoming a public scandal, he forbad his followers from marrying his wives even after his death. His sycophantic followers buried his embarrassing condition forever by including his slave-girls and concubines in the same prohibition (cf. Maulana Mufti Muhammad Shafi, Quranul Karim, p. 1088-9).
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/asgh ... slam12.htm
It is good that there is still humanity within you to be ashamed of the repugnant and disgraceful behaviour of your prophet.
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