Liberate wrote:Say you didn't imply that Aisha parents were not muslims before the Hijrah
Point blank I didnt.
This is an irrelevant moot point, this is the best you can do when defending a dirty old man violating the womb of a little girl that has not started puberty, it is truly disturbing how anybody in this day and age can defend this sick behaviour, if you take offense at it I make no apologies and shame on you for even attempting to defend it, the majority of the world are repulsed by such behaviour and those who defend such behaviour that is why over 6 million muslims every year are abandoning the stupidity of bowing down 5 times a day to the whims of a paedophile.
Liberate wrote:did you or did you not say Aisha had reached puberty before the Hijrah?
Do I have to repeat my self. What did the hadeeth say ?
You mean this nonsense:
For Our Audience to Decide !
Lberate wrote:
Help us out H2O tell us exactly what Aisha says about going to Medina? at what age did she leave for Medina? H2O were you not trying to tell us with one hadith taken out of context in which you made an argument out of silence that "She already reached puberty before they married when she was still living in Makkah before the Hijrah. when the hadiths do not contradict each other state she was pre-pubescent right into Medina and was even playing with her girl friends in the swings in Medina while being led up the aisle???
Lets look at the hadeeths again.
Hadeeth that mention Engagement ~ "Khitbah" at the age of six.
Quote:
Document A
Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, Book 58, Number 234 Narrated 'Aisha: The prophet engaged (Khitbah) me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage).
Hadeeth that mention marriage ~ "Nikah" at age of six.
Engaged at six
Where does it mention that the engagement was at Medina?
As already stressed to you the engagement/betrothal/marriage contract/ was started at six years of age and the wedding occurred when she was 9 years old and went to live with Mohammed, it is plain laughable to now claim that marriage and betrothal are completely different terms when they are used interchangeably within the hadiths, it is clutching at straws and desperation of enormous proportions, even Aburaees playing the devil's advocate does not see any contradiction, your eminent mullahs and imams do not see any contradiction in these sahih (authentic) hadiths, even the encyclopedia of islam state that Aisha was 9 years old when this 'marriage' was consumated:
I also want to provide evidence from the best Islamic Ency. available in English, and other Islamic writers. They also acknowledge Aisha's age being 9. FROM THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ISLAM, under "Aisha". (pub. by E.J. Brill). "Some time after the death of Khadija, Khawla suggested to Muhammad that he should marry either Aisha, the 6 year old daughter of his chief follower, or Sawda Zama, a widow of about 30, who had gone as a Muslim to Abyssinia and whose husband had died there. Muhammad is said to have asked her to arrange for him to marry both. It had already been agreed that Aisha should marry Djubayr Mutim, whose father, though still pagan, was friendly to the Muslims. By common consent, however, this agreement was set aside, and Muhammad was betrothed to Aisha.... The marriage was not consummated until some months after the Hidjra, (in April 623, 624). Aisha went to live in an apartment in Muhammad's house, later the mosque of Median. She cannot have been more than ten years old at the time and took her toys to her new home." From the Muslim book "WOMEN IN ISLAM" by Said Abjullah Seif-Al-Hatimy, published by Islamic Publications in Lahore Pakistan: "...(Aisha) She was the youngest of his wives. It is said that she was nine years of age when he married her." SUMMATION OF THE EVIDENCE OF AISHA'S AGE I've belabored the point. But because of the controversy within the Islamic world I had to document her age thoroughly. The most respected Hadith and Islamic scholars from early on until this present day state that Aisha was 9 when she engaged in sexual relations with Muhammad.
Document B
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married (Nikah) me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
Again marriage/betrothal/engagement/marriage contract are used interchangeably she was engaged at six and admitted to Mohammed's house at 9, no mention is made that the engagement is at Medina.
Document C
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 Narrated 'Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) (Nikah) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Again the marriage contract/engagement/betrothal/marriage are used interchangeably; at 6 and came to live with him and consumated the 'marriage' at 9, no mention is made that the engagement is at Medina.
Document D
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married (Nikah) her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Again marriage/marriage contract/engagement/betrothal are used interchangeably, no mention is made that this engagement took place in Medina.
Khitbah (engagement) and Nikah (marriage) in the Arabic of the Hadeeth are two different words with abosulutely two different meanings...
yada yada yada
Document E
Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
The hadeeth above says our Prophet married (Nikah) Aisha (r.a.h.) in the second year of the Hijrah (not before the Hijrah as the other hadeeth Document A expresses) when she was six years of age and then 3 years later when she was 9 years he consummated the Nikah (marriage).
Again an irrelevant moot point, the hadiths overwhelmingly state she was 6 at marriage/betrothal/marriage contract/engagement and 9 when the 'marriage' was consumated.
But since you want to clutch at straws as any objective individual can see with the vast majority of hadiths relating to the same incident that you do not have a leg to stand on, let us take your assumption to it's logical conclusion
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina
Khadija dies three years before Mohammed heads for Medina
. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha
He stays in Medina for two years or so and then marries Aisha
when she was a girl of six years of age
SO HE MARRIES AISHA WHEN SHE WAS SIX YEARS OLD IN MEDINA AND CONSUMATES THIS 'MARRIAGE' AT 9 YEARS OLD IN MEDINA?
DOES THIS HELP YOU IN THE SLIGHTEST?
, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
ACCORDING TO YOUR ASSUMPTION HE STILL CONSUMES THE MARRIAGE AT 9 YEARS OLD, 6 AND 9 STILL EQUAL PAEDOPHILE.
Generally, Document E hadeeth is used to dictated Documents C & D hadeeths for the year Aisha got married at six to our Prophet. Thus contradicting the timeline that calculate her actual age as we have explained before on our previous posts.
Already debunked by islamic scholars on two posts.
Liberate, a zealous hater of Islam, used Document A which contradicts Document E to dictate the timeline period of the Nikah for Documents B, C, & D.
I recognise islam for what it is a demonic doctrine from the pit of hell with your prodigy of a prophet frothing at the mouth in a demon possessed epileptic fit violating the womb of a 9 year old girl who has not reached puberty, insulting the rest of humanity telling us this beast of a man is a prophet.
Liberate wrote:The issue at hand is did your prophet marry and consumate the 'marriage' with a pre-pubescent girl? not wether her parents were muslims.
He consummated the Nikah when she was at the age of puberty.
Let's take this step by step, you have been shown hadiths that verbatim say she was pre-pubescent when she married Mohammed and prepubescent in Medina when that marriage was consumated, rather than make arguments out of silence and argue over semantic nonsense bring forth your hadiths that states she was at the age of puberty when this marriage was consumated, no beating around the bush, just bring forth the hadiths, here again are the hadiths that contradict all you say:
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 Narrated 'Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Sahih Bukhari 8:151, Narrated 'Aisha: "I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet , and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, Book 58, Number 234 Narrated 'Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage).
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
Narrated Aisha:
When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon.
Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4916 and Number 4917
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.
Sahih Muslim Book 8, Number 3311
'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and (s)he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he died she was eighteen years old
Liberate wrote:Do the hadiths even remotely agree with you?
The hadeeths dont even agree with themselves
I dare you to bring forth one individual in this entire forum that agrees with you that she was not six when she was engaged to Mohammed and 9 when that 'marriage' was consumated.
Liberate wrote:The hadiths show you to be an out and out desperate liar
And you are an out and out desperate comatose fool.
When you stoop to insults it is obvious you have nothing worthwhile left to say, again I dare you to bring forth one individual who has your level of deductive reasoning, nobody has vouched for you given the evidence from those hadiths, even Aburaees playing the devil's advocate sees no contradiction, I dare you to bring forth one individual who agrees with you given the evidence from those hadiths, I seriously doubt anybody would be prepared to be shown to be a laughing stock like you it is well known muslims have been indoctrinated all their lives that their religion and Mohammed are the greatest when shown the truth and unable to defend it they simply flip and resort to insults.
Liberate wrote:Please H2O bring me one other individual other than you who fails to comprehend what is blatantly being said here, don't give me desperate semantic nonsense bring forth one other individual with a warped sense of logic as yourself.
Would that change anything ?
Believe me I am finding it hard to believe this is what you regard as islamic apologetics, it is beyond childish, I am in all honesty wanting to hear from anybody and I mean anybody who thinks like you, you seem to be judge, jury and executioner of your own religion, if there is anybody with your deductive reasoning by all means let us hear from them rather than feel we are talking to a troll. (ofcourse you can always make a new name and say " I agree with brother H2O")
Liberate wrote:To this day we still do not know why you are a muslim...
So what should I be ?
Liberate wrote:...first you told us you were a christian then you became a jew and then you became a muslim....
Yup I was like water flowing in the direction of less friction based on LAW coming to its distination to where it is guided.
and it is now guided to defend a paedophile that has violated the womb of a 9 year old girl nowhere near puberty,
shame on you as a human being, shame on you.
Linerate wrote:...every reason why you have given as to why you became a muslim has been thoroughly debunked, from the alledged indepth description of embryology (from a few lines that might as well be talking about a prophecy of bubble gum), to the prediction of Saudi oil which is in no way implied from the context and interpretation, Mohammed's greatest trick was to associate murdering, his incest, paedophilia, adultery, fornication, raping, and ethnic hatred to the tautology that "God is great" as if God sanctioned his actions, the devil could not have planned it better. Far from considering you as a mortal enemy I am actually really intrigued as to why anybody in the west who finds out about the context of the koran and the formation of islam would chose to remain a muslim.
Cant stay to a topic can you ?
Liberate wrote:H2O I believe if you were in Tibet you would be a buddhist...
I'm a Mu'min living in America. What does this have to do with the topic ?
It is sickening an american would openly defend paedophilia
Liberate wrote:...if you were in India you would be a Zoroastrian...
I'm a Mu'min living in America. What does this have to do with the topic ?
It is sickening a human being in this day and age would defend paedophilia, I make no apologies if you take offense at this, shame on you.
Liberate wrote:....if you were in Iran you would be a Ba'hai...
I'm a Mu'min living in America. What does this have to do with the topic
?
The theme is you seem to seek abuse and humuliation, you welcome it, this is not normal behaviour, and you have no problem with paedophilia... in all honesty H2O I sincerely believe you need some kind of mental evaluation.
Liberate wrote:..which ever religion gives you the most persecution so you can feel you have earned the right to enter heaven, this is littered all over your posts you seem...
I'm a Mu'min living in America. What does this have to do with the topic ? Are you admiting that we muslims are persecuted in America, the Christian America ?
If you call persecution not given the freedom to impose your shariah laws and silence apostates and all who oppose the demonic doctrine that is islam as pre the days of the internet, and at the same time use those secular laws to silence your critics calling them hatemongers long may that persecution continue.
Liberate wrote:....to welcome ridicule no matter how embarassing, no matter how degrading you make yourself look, you've even asked folks to 'attack' you instead of other muslims, something does not feel right about this type of "punching bag" behaviour H2O, a psychiatrist would have a field day with you.
What does this have to do with the topic ?
In all honestly regardless of what you may think H2O I do not hate you, in the middle of typing what I was going to type something dawned on me, I shall pray for you.