Liberate wrote:
The more you spit out this disgusting parroted stance the more we will start taking you seriously
Again this is the interpretation of said ayat:
:
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying.
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=65&tid=54196
So spit it out you think Ibn Kathir is an idiot and doesn't know what he is talking about? the 90% of islam that is sunni and the 5% that is shia that respects Ibn Kathir are also idiots and don’t know when a pre pubescent girl is being referred as opposed to a fully mature woman?
H2O wrote:Lets see what I said
:
The topic is about DIVORCE which are rulings; the subject is in regards to WOMEN. The Quran addresses Divorce in terms of WOMEN not GIRLS. Can you show me where it says in the Arabic “GIRLs” ?
Also the Quran is addressing WOMEN whom did not yet get their periods.
Also the Quran expresses Married WOMEN who did not yet get their periods in terms of Divorce which denotes one can marry a WOMAN when she has not yet gotten her period.
In Islam a female become a WOMAN when she reaches the age of PUBERTY whereas most women dont get their periods until 2,3,4 years after puberty.
It is obvious Liberate payed not attention to my post. Can some one show me in my statement where we conflicted with Ibn Katheers commentary ?
Why don't you tell us all exactly what ibn Kathir means in his commentary when he says this:
The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation
I really cannot believe you are trying to defend this insanity, what does Ibn Kathir mean when he says the
"young who have not reached menstruation" knock yourself out trying semantic acrobatics with that one.
Aburaees wrote:H2O,
You have shown that the Hadith giving her age as 6 years old is considered unreliable.
H2O has done no such thing, he quoted two completely irrelevant hadiths when applied to the consumation of Aisha's marriage with Mohammed:
Al-BukhariVolumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 465.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By 'Aisha : (The wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My father Abii Bakr thought of building a mosque in the courtyard of his house and he did so. He used to pray and recite the Qur'an in it. The pagan women and their children used to stand by him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was a Softhearted person and could not help weeping while reciting the Quran. The chiefs of the Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that their children and women might be affected by the recitation of Quran)."
Where on earth is consumation, or marriage mentioned in this entire hadith? Am I to take it H2O is unable to see the generic phrase "for as long as I can remember" in this hadith. This is an argument out of silence, this in no way contradicts the Bukhari hadith that says she was six years old and 9 when the marriage was consumated. BTW H2O's defense material his website reference that he clearly did not fully comprehend says this about Aisha:
Hazrat Aisha (Radhiyallahu-Anha) was born as a Muslim. She says: "When I got to the age of understanding my parents were already Muslims."
http://www.central-mosque.com/biographi ... tAisha.htm
Surely any objective individual can see that she was born as a muslim and the phrase "
since I attained the age of puberty" is meant to refer to this; for as long as she can remember her parents were muslims.
Abu Dawood Book 002, Hadith Number 0641.
------------------------------
Chapter : Not known.
Narated By 'Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin : The Prophet (pbuh) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.
Again where on earth does this mention marriage or consumation? Am I to believe H2O does not see this is in no way relevant to Aisha's age during consumation and when she married Mohammed? "
Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil" where on earth does that mean Aisha was not at puberty when she married Mohammed, can you not see the hadith simply says "
allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil"? was she wearing a veil? was she not wearing a veil? relevance? these are absolute ridiculous arguments.
H2O wrote:
Hazrat Aisha (Radhiyallahu-Anha) became the Holy Prophet's (Sallallahu-Alayhi-Wasallam) wife in Makkah when she was in the sixth year of her life
but her wedding did not take place until the second year after the Hijrah when she was about nine or ten.
http://www.central-mosque.com/biographi ... tAisha.htm
Aburaees wrote:
H20,
This quote you provided says that Aisha became Muhammads wife when she was 6, but the wedding did not take place until she was 9 or 10.
Doesn't this mean that they contracted the marriage when she was 6 years old (Nikkah)...
And the wedding (Walimah) took place when she was 9 or 10.
H2O wrote:Aburaees, we were showing a relative contradiction in the idea adopted from hadeeth that the Nikah took place when compaired to the time line periods. I dont know what happend I must have omitted a sentence when pasting that spoke of that quote when compared to the historical time line.
Aburaees wrote:When you believe that the wedding took place at the age of 9, how many of these things had been completed?...........
If you don't mind, can you please show us how you know that they did not consummate their marriage for 3years.
H2O wrote:As I have clearly shown before there is contradiction in the report of the age of her Nikah. I am sure you see this, but for some reason it is not registering to some of you.
There is no contradiction; you are plainly lying.
First of all did you did not show us a hadith, you quote a website that clearly contradicts what you say and in the very next breath you say you have clearly shown there is contradiction in her age!!!!
Tell us H2O on what basis do you consider the sahih muslim quote you pasted which does not in any way shape or form conflict the age of 6 years of marriage and 9 years of consumation, more superior to the Bukhari hadith that says she was 6 when he married her and 9 when he consumated this 'marriage' do you notice it is Aisha that is narrating both ahadith?:
Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
Narrated 'Aisha:
"that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' ".
Isnt this suppose to be like a trial thingy here ? All we are seeing is prejudice and cultural biase on the seat of secular veiws.
This ofcourse is the best you can come up with when your foot is in your mouth.
*Did many of you forget in a trial or in any bases to establish truth conflicting evidence is thrown out as not credible unless there is some other means to approve one or the other is correct.
I have shown you two times the polemics from understanding-islam that aisha was not six using non sahih hadith to contradict sahih hadith is absolute rubbish
Numbers do not contradict and are the bases of abosolute truth inside and outside religion.
After showing clearly the contradictions which cannot be proven wrong, people still hold to their wanton motives of propagating something that has been proven not credible and incorrect.
Dont make me laugh what on earth did you show? argument from a negative premise, argument from silence, denying the antecedent and relying on false authority, I guess this is all you can do when defending a pedofile.
*Aburaees, we have proven the that the transmission of her age is unrealiable
I have shown you this argument has been debunked by muslim scholars nonetheless.
whereas we find absolutely no conflict in the time line of cosumation in which the prophit as the reports express our Prophet did not consume the Marriage until 3 years after the nikah.
Yeah 6 and 9, this is a pedofile.
I dont see any Christian contesting the arguement of how could she be 6 years of age in 623 ACE ~ when she got married if she was 18 in 632 ACE when our prophet (s.a.w.)passed away. Can any of you provide contrary evidence ?
Good grief H20 are you really this desperate, can you not even see in the website that you posted that she was six when she was married and 9 when she had her wedding??? Why didnt you bring up a hadith to back your assertion? why did you post a website reference? the website reference your alledged defense material is a case for the prosecution, I find it unbelievable (maybe I shouldn't since this a theme with you) that you can argue such nonsense.
H2O wrote:
Hazrat Aisha (Radhiyallahu-Anha) became the Holy Prophet's (Sallallahu-Alayhi-Wasallam)
wife in Makkah when she was in the
sixth year of her life but her wedding did not take place until the second year after the Hijrah when she was about nine or ten.
http://www.central-mosque.com/biographi ... tAisha.htm
Our evidence has been made clear as to the authenticity of the age report.
Maybe you are trying to convince yourself, it is a great pity this is what islam has done to you.