Christian/Muslim ThreadsWhat qualifies Muhamad as a prophet ?I take it you are not here to learn... but to teach... and teach what you feel is correct... even if the entire world says you are wrong. Once again you are missing the point. we were discussing hadith books... but since you are bringing in the Quran.. fine... tell me... in school during exam time... did you ever come across any topic that required no explaination... you just learnt it by-heart... like poetry... or certain history dates... or geographical places... how many times did you have to ... or how long would it take you to memorise say 10 capitals of Europe??? England, France, Germany,Spain,Italy,Greece, Denmark,Finland,Sweden and Austria??? say you are 10 years old... and you have to memorise them for a pop quiz... how long would it take you to do it? now consider you are 30 yrs old. Now how long would you take? and what are the chances of error of missing one??? When the Quran was revealed... people were made to memorise it. grown adult people... at first a few lines... then a few paragraphs then a couple of chapters etc.... with time people memorised more and more... and they also wrote it down... on whatever material they could lay their hands on. And the number of memorising people were not just one or two... they were in hundreds... So now you tell me. If a 1000 people (and this is a very very low number) were to memorise say 100 lines... and they repeat it all atleast once a day every day ... and if they later on decide to write it down from memory just incase everysingle written paper is lost... what is the probability of making a mistake??? plz keep in mind the above example that i cited... so now you tell me. are there any errors in the transmission of the Quran? and plz dont bring me those bukhari hadiths speaking of lost verses etc... they have been refuted N number of times... I know that you are just looking for an excuse to point a finger... but try to be honest... and think about it. here there are thousands of people who have dedicated themselves to the memorization of a book... did you know that there are even lil' children as old as 5 yrs old who know the entire Quran... by heart??? I hope this answers your question... And a stone is an inanimate object.. a non-living object. it does even move an inch on its own (i am not talking about rolling stones or boulders etc) leave alone running away with anyones clothes... Unless you can bring a verse from the Quran where inanimate objects move as if they have life ... your whole argument is pointless. Plz produce this hadith. Seriously.. plz produce it... along with its isnad.. I see that you are totally devoid of manners and decency and respect... i sencierly hope this is just an isolated example of such attitude and it is not a general christian example. Are you aware of the word context?? what your opinion of someone is or isnt is of no importance here... neither does mine. your question was about certain verses in sura 49. and i gave you the explaination... now if you dont consider Prophet Muhammed to be a prophet... well.. its not important... your opinion is irrevelent... you have to take the context into consideration.. context is : Prophet Muhammed says he is a God-sent Prophet Abu Bakr and Umer accept him as the above Prophet They argue in front of him they are reprimanded by him. This is how it is tobe viewed... The same reasons how the 12 apostles believed in Jesus. giving a pessemistic view of things doesnt make it so. and you were telling me about sugarcoating.... and what you are doing??? i'd say this is the exact opposite of sugarcoating... call it saltcoating... turing something into a diabolical event. Did you know that shrinks do the same thing??? the problem with your explaination is that you read the relevent lines and re-explained it as to your suiting... how about posting the exact words you read... instead of translating it into your own words??? both you and i read the same lines... yet you explain it with a diabolical source... and i... i with a divine source... so lets just cut to the chase and post the original text. and avoid all this confusion... I dont know....
and i assume you wouldnt mind if i barged into your room ??? proof??? i dont remember the word stole in any narration... so proof plz i assume its ok to shout n argue infront of a person who he considers a prophet... once again proof... why not??? its the same thing... how is it different? and by the way the issue is not of what Peter would do... its the fact that he disagreed with Jesus that matters. Jesus who he considered to be God-sent... The Messiah.. The Saviour... and yet he disagreed with him... See how easily i twisted the facts and made it sound something it isnt??? well thats what you are doing. heart palpatations, shivers cold sweat.. etc...humpf.... now you know that 2 can play this game. so like i said earlier.. lets just cut the baloney and state facts... not twisted fiction... It is very easy for one to play the cat n mouse game... Cat and mouse game response : and the Bible contains "Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him [Jesus]" which is recited in churches all over the world for the past 2000 years and will forever be recited...
Sorry.. no gun jumping here... the moment i said "who you believe to be a God-sent man" sorted out the "first prove he is God-sent" ... so what would you do? I tried the link.. .but there was no hijab text there... maybe if you could paste teh text or recheck the link plz?? thanks Answer : Seems like you answered your own question... When God was speaking to Moses... who else was He speaking to??? Aaron?? but wasnt much later ??? Or how about Noah? Who else heard the message?? which brings us to another important question... how do you define the word prophet? who do you say this person is or that person aint??? according to you (and i assume Christianity as well) Noah or Abraham were not Prophets... so what were they ??? the question is not of what we think of them as per the Quran... all that i am saying si based on the Bible... which according to you is infallable... and the Quran isnt... so even if it does say something similar to the Bible ... according to you it should be scrapped because as you claim the Quran is not divine. So why do you use it to support your claims? As far as you are concerned the Quran is just a book... nothing divine about it. as for the hypocritical attitude you assume is common for muslims.. .well ... you are wrong. everysingle thing i say here is based from the Bible.. is it my fault that the Bible gives me such information?? is it my fault there are discrepencies in the Bible? no. I cannot prove or disprove the Bible based on the Quran to a christian... i can do it only from the Bible... like wise neither can you prove the Quran wrong based on the Bible to a muslim. So i suggest you quit bringing up such lame excuses... and get some solid information. No. actually it matters not to me... you can say whatever you like... but what does get me worked up is ignorant people making sick comments like some demented persons about Prophet Muhammed. or the Quran... with no solid basis for their statements. all you have provided here are half-truths... or in most cases all false... Do you honestly want me to be completely rational? How about logical? maybe even scientific?? thats fine... but you are missing the point... who vouched for John the Baptist? Coz he quoted some verse from the OT claiming it to be a prophecy for himself? are you really that gullible?? naive?? call it double standards if you want... but this is the exact same tactics you are employing here... when i joined here i expected decent civilised persons discussions... however i really am surprised to see the level intelligence here among some members... ranging from absolute childness to total senility... No offence to the other members... there are honest persons here... but the bad apple always stands out... No one vouched for Prophet Muhammed. does that make him any lesser of a Prophet??? so who vouched for Jesus? John the Baptist? Who vouched for John The Baptist? Jesus? This is what i mean... then there is no difference of opinion between a jew and a christian, right??? they agree on everything, right??? if ths is true then i wonder why the christian churches indulged in so much jew hating... the masscares... how about the pogroms??? oh ... i forgot they were all done by catholic churches.. oh... well that just clears everything up... Catholics are not christians.... so these jew hate crimes are not of christian origin.... and you tell me about double standards and hypocracy..... ok.. i'll bite.. why? you mean to say rational christian individual... tell me... is satan able to decieve? is he able to show himself as a bright light to decieve people??? or how about voices in the head?? the answer to this answers you above objection. If satan was the one decieving Prophet Muhammed... well why cant he be the one shouting out "This is the son i am well pleased with"??? Wasnt satan able to help the egyptian magicians in turning their staffs or whatever it was into snakes??? well there is magic for you... and if satan can order one of his minions to take possession of a person.. do you not think it will also be possible for him to order that minion to leave that person also??? and here is the demon excorsism for you... need i go on?? No this bias comes from your desire to read selected texts only... which even if someone said is not true... you would dismiss that person and still proceed... as it fits your purposes... Because it is not a real fault as you show it to be... i need some solid concrete proof... and incase you didnt know it... i have been looking for this same fault for the past number of years... and if faults were a deciding factor then... christianity doesnt even stand a fighting chance. I can point out atleast 10 such shortcommings of the Bible right off the top of my head... should i?? I went thru the 1st verse... it seems to me the context here is persons concerned with here are not "special persons" a.k.a Prophets... but common persons.. like you and I... aside from this... if a person were to dedicate his whole life to the service of God... have like 2-3 minor sins only...etc... what will his status be in the eyes of God?? will he be given special treatment? or will he be just bunched up with all the other low-lifes? and treated like some common man who did nothing for God?? ok let le also add the re-born clause to this statement. this person is a re-born person. so?? what do you think? As for the letters and acts verses... i dont consider them to be divine documents... i mean a letter written by a person who is not a divine Prophet to another person who is not a divine Prophet... does not amount to a divine document... and as for Acts... well that is just a history book. it is not a divine book. it only documents what the apostles did after Jesus. So if you have any such verse spoken by Jesus in the NT plz post them.. thanks Yea i guess that was kinda lame on my part... my apologies... but when 2 people are discussing a topic.. one always has to come down to the level of the other guy... who is the father of Jesus? i thought i answered this... anyways here it is again... who is the father of Adam? answer... no one. is it so difficult for God to create a human with out a father? i mean c'mon dude... He made the entire universe... all He has to do is say it and it becomes. is creating something out of nothing a big deal for God??? if yes... then you are limiting Him.... Do you know why the jews hated Jesus??? because they were afraid they would lose their grand priesthood privilages...all that power... control.. money etc... gone... not because Jesus said he is god. as a matter of a fact... if i am not mistaken i think there is a verse in the Quran which clarifies this... i'll try to find it... if anyone knows it .. plz post... No one did. which is why i asked how do you define prophet? what are the rules by which one is called a prophet??? and interestingly ... do you think all the early muslim converts were gullible? stupid? brainless twits?? that they would blindly follow some schizo person who rolled on the floor frothing at the mouth??? How much do you know of early muslim history??? the time before Medina?? the Meccan period??? i suggest you look it up... what was the motivation of all those people who inspite of persecution chose to believe??? i am really interested in hearing your version of the "truth" Could you plz be a little less ignorant... this is not an insult ... because i have already told you the lump story is false. yet you choose to be ignorant of this fact and repeat it time and again. justli like your donkey isnad story....btw... i am waiting for your donkey isnad .... aside from the lump bit... i already answered the rest... look above... Ditto... so have your contradictions been answered... maybe if you spent some time looking it up .. it might clear up all your misconceptions... says me. do you think bukhari to be infallable? this part i am interested in... plz respond.. is bukhari or muslim or dawood or the other hadith collectors infallable??? plz resposd. no... all you have said is backed by islamic info twisted by your mind to fit your purposes to get one up on the opposition. you asked for tafsir ... i gave you one... if it doesnt suit your purposes... well too bad. i will not twist the fact to suit your desires... oh so what i say is fairy tales and what you say is fact? you asked for Quranic references etc... i gave you one. just because like before it doesnt suit your islam bashing purpose it is unsubstanciated fairy tale? are you an authority on the Quran? oh i forgot... the story of the rock that ran away has to be true... other wise your posts would be all meaningless and a big joke. So Jesus is his own father??? so Jesus is the father and the son ahd the spirit? interesting... but whats more interesting is Jesus speaking to himself... asking nay pleading with himself to let the cup pass from himself but not his [Jesus'] will but his[Jesus'] will be done. and this is christian logic and rationale??? God is as much Adams father as Jesus' as yours and mine... no more no less... Jews wanted Jesus killed for personal gain... not for religious beliefs. yes it is a shia tafsir... and i gave the link also... Plz explain. yes... is your source infallable? thats easy. Coz its written... Prophet Muhammed is the last one. anyone who claims to be a prophet after him is a liar. No to all 5 questions... actually its not just him... every single Prophet who walked the face of the earth is/was sin-free... and there are 2 ways of knowing this... 1 . coz its written... and 2. using logic. There are 2 types of faults... one intentional and the other un-intentional. as for intentional "faults" there are none. the other one... well when the word unintentional is used it automatically means the person is unaware of it. however for those who wish to capitalize on this issue... let me clarify... it is written that Prophet Muhammed has been protected by God from making any such unintentioanl mistakes. so sin-free. so how is Abraham / Noah not a Prophet then? Did they not speak in the name of God? As for Prophet Muhammed.. which of the things he said didnt happen??? Says who?? plz provide muslim proof where words like rape adultery etc are used... otherwise... it is just your misguided opinion... which btw is of no importance.
let me add some more verses for you... Matt 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist evil. But whoever shall strike you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 And to him desiring to sue you, and to take away your tunic, let him have your coat also. Isnt it obvious??? or you do not wish to see the clear meaning??? only the sin free one can raise a finger at a sinner... are you sin-free??? If you still are a sinner despite the "reborn" thingie then whats the point of it all??? coz if i am not mistaken isnt sin what causes seperation from God... eternally... i think its called death... dead to God... how about the other verses Matt 5:39-40???No retaliation. No back-answering.. no nothing... if someone comes up to a christian and slaps one across his face... he should as per the infallable Biblical declaration from Matt5:39 turn the other cheek. Do you follow this divine order? If yes.. then isnt all of your posts here showing that you are a hypocrite? if no.. then why??? Why do you not follow this divine Biblical order from John8:7??? Maybe coz it doesnt belong in the 21st century??? Or maybe because it doesnt suit your porposes??? Point is just because a rule in the Quran doesnt agree with the 21st century western world's mindframe and culture and freedom etc... doesnt mean its outdated. rebirth - born again - reborn ... we are not discussing buddhism or whatever... its christianity... all three are interchangable.... once again .. the idealistic view... tell me this... is heaven garuanteed for a reborn christian... example you... are you 100% sure you will go to heaven??? Peace Ali |
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