Christian/Muslim ThreadsWhat qualifies Muhamad as a prophet ?Good morning Liberate... how are you??? all well i hope...
you misunderstand my point... the hadith books are not infallable... they are not the absolute word of God... hence they can be right or wrong... sort of like history books... it can be correct or not... because it is written by common error prone people... people like you and i... also you should know that the writers of bukhari and muslim... they didnt verify the info... they went around and collected it all and wrote it down... which is one of the reasons why you will find many duplicates or incomplete or partial hadiths... or some where the whole story is written and right after that the next hadith will be only a one-liner... So plz try to understand that these books are not an absolute authority... now about the authenticity... it differs from people to people... sects to sects... etc... some dont bother verification... some do. you see you need to understand the different muslim schools of thought to know how the verification is done... certain sects choose to accept all as true wether it makes sense or not. some accept only that seem logical and discard the illogical... etc... the general rule of thumb is if the hadith goes against the Quran ... then its false... even if it does go well with the Quran... the matter of fabrication still stands... it is a complicated process... something that just cant be explained in 1 paragraph... bottom line is there is some truth in them and there is some falsehood... It doesnt matter one bit what you think or believe... your beliefs do not change anything... neither does mine... Fact is Prophet Muhammed claimed to be a God-sent man Fact is the arguing persons in question believed him to be who he claims Fact is they did raise their voices in his presence Fact is such behaviour is unacceptable in front of a person who others believe to be a God-sent person. Tell me... do you know the incident when Jesus rebuked Peter and called him satan??? why do you think he did that? Do you think it was because of something he said? like wise.... no real God-sent Prophet will tolerate insolence... esp from his own... and they definately dont have to either. The tafsir is fine... i dont see anything wrong with it... but i dont get the point of your objection... as i said above... what about Jesus and Peter?? and also... what is the point of documenting this incident between Jesus and Peter??? so wht if Peter temporarily was tempted by satan? or became satan or whatever the deal was then??? what is the significance to our 21st century world??? a time when people know for a fact that the earth is round ... not as believed back in the dark ages by the intelluctually inclined western world... you know there is a reason why they call it the dark ages... but that is irrevelent here... its off topic... so lets skip it... Point is... A God-sent man is standing infront of you... who you believe to be a God-sent man... what do you do? shout? aside from its immediate meaning... there is a hidden meaning as well... respect for those in knowledge... why does a person respect his pastor? his teacher? his president? does a person standup and start fighting with others in their presence??? when was the last time you heard someone "settling it outside old school" in front of the pope??? none. I hope this answers your question... Uhh... do you have any source to back this up with?? or is this another anti muslim literature info?? No my friend ... i didnt misunderstand you... but i wanted to hear it from you. So now you say that these people whose names you provided were visited by angels... and when i say that Muhammed was visited by an angel its all of a sudden a lie... satanic... a joke??? why?? No.. no angels visited any of the other people. but then ... isnt satan capable of making himself visible in any shape and form?? is there any possibility of these "visitations" might just have been fron satan??? just like the incident between Jesus and Peter?? obviously you must be fuming right now... this is excatly how i or anyone else feels when such statements are made about Islam... "Behold this is the son in whom I am well pleased" ... satan speaking out loud?? I know all this sounds very harsh... but there are times when even the most patient goes ballistic... the person who interprets prophesies do so using their previous knowledge.. with bias with an answer already in mind. TOmato-ToMato... Satan speaking out loud.... and my response is the exact same to you... you agree with this concept only because it matches your bias.. your conscience... "Then Islam will never find any good because you reject the obvious and reinterpret it in your own persepctives. Then everything absurd must be true because it falls in line with your perception. ..... pizza... toppings..." Do you know why i cant find any faults with Islam???? because no one yet has brought any 100% undeniable unexplainable fault. every single apperent alleged fault brought forth is clarified. unlike the trinity. but thats besides the point.. Tell me.. do you set the rules for God or does He set them for you??? do you life by His rules or He by yours?? If God can be 3 and one at the same time... then why not this??? Trinity. Plz tell me you are not this gullible? Sorry i dont. not every christian knows everysingle thing in the Bible. i was not a practicing christian. just a name sake... because there has to be something on paper... and because i was born as one... i didnt choose to be one. btw.. i have been baptised... so "once saved always saved" right? If you read the whole passage... you will realise that the above statement was not a direct one on one converstation between John the Baptist and God... it was a proclaimation... there is a difference... and while we are on it... how does one decide this is from God and not satan? And i am aware of this quote... Similarly an angel - Gabriel - visited Prophet Muhammed. how does one dispute that? as for Mary Magdalene... i dont have the entire comparision here... but the 4 gospels record slightly different narrations... dont you agree??? False... Lies... satanic deception. www.al-islam.org/quran I expect an apology for this comment... you are out of line... otherwise i will have to report it to the mods.... My mistake... i got mixed up... here is the tafsir... Many Christian scholars have failed to understand the term "O sister of Harun", although, according to the Bible, Maryam and Zakariyya's wife were related to each other, and Zakariyya's wife was a descendant of the house of Harun. Generally any female belonging to a family is described as a sister or daughter of the head of the family. The Quran and the Bible assert that Maryam and Zakariyya's wife were the descendants of Harun, the brother of Musa, a prophet of God, and through him belonged to the tribe of Levi, noted for virtue and piety, and not to the house of Dawud. In order to remove the discrepancies between the two genealogies, given in Matthew and Luke, the Christian Church wrongly tries to establish that one refers to Maryam and the other refers to Joseph, the alleged husband of Maryam, which is entirely based upon conjecture and is against the clear wordings of the Quran and the Bible. When Isa was born the people of the town declared that Maryam had fallen and disgraced the name of her progenitors. once again taken from www.al-islam.org/quran [Pooya/Ali Commentary 33:69] Refer to the plot of Qarun to malign Musa in the commentary of Qasas: 80; and refer to the commentary of verses 4, 5, 28 to 32 and 36 and 37 of this surah for annoyance caused to the Holy Prophet when he married his cousin Zaynab daughter of Jahsh. cross - ref to 28:80 = [Pooya/Ali Commentary 28:80] After Firawn and his people had been drowned in the Nile, Musa delegated the authority to Harun. This caused envy in Qarun towards Musa and Harun. To degrade Musa he employed a woman, bribing her with two purses of gold, and told her to say before public that Musa had committed adultery with her. Next day when Musa was preaching to the crowd against adultery, Qarun stood up and asked if the same punishment would be against Musa also if he committed the crime? Musa said that it would certainly be, at which Qarun pointed out to the woman and said that the woman alleged that Musa had committed adultery with her. Musa called the woman and asked her to tell the truth. When face to face with Musa the woman divulged the secret plan of Qarun saying that she had been hired by Qarun to lay this false charge against him. Musa got angry and prayed to Allah to punish Qarun. Allah responded to Musa's prayer and asked Musa to order the earth to swallow Qarun and his fellow disbelievers who were with him. When the earth had taken up Qarun and his party to their waists they shouted for mercy but Musa did not stop the earth and they were completely swallowed. Allah addressed Musa, at this stage, and said to Musa that Qarun and his men cried for mercy several times but Musa commanded the earth to swallow them completely. "Had they called Me even once, I would certainly have forgiven them and saved them." Here the grief of the Holy Prophet for the disbelievers should be remembered. hope this answers your question... Well the OT is filled with polygamy... isnt it just outright disgusting to read such words in a religious book of God??? I suggest the OT be dropped out completely as it doesnt fit in with the christian one-on-one relaionship. funny remarks aside.... i say it again... a man has the option to marry upto 4 women... provided he can provide for all 4 equally. with no bias.. if he cannot then he souldnt... no where does it say a man HAS to marry 4 times... once is enuff... but if needed the option is there. and do you realise that God is not american or european... or western for that matter... The west is so advanced that the women dont even need to wear clothes... they can go around in in their underwear and be called civilised... pornography is a way of life... child pregnancies are a fact of life. etc... plz do not give me that west is the ideal way of life. Who created these western rules? God? Are american laws based on the Bible? are Eurpoean laws based on the Bible? after all isnt the Bible infallable... so anything that is not from the Bible is bound to be fallable... right??? interestingly birth control is frowned upon by the catholic church... well atleast before... i am not aware of any changes in their rules lately... and since we are on the subject of the west... isnt the KKK christian as well??? western colonizer of africa used to prohibit the baptism on african slaves despite their conversions... because once a person is baptised he is a free man... and no one wants to let go of his slaves... ok i am calm now... who is the Father of Adam? Howmany Prophets do you know who were not percesuted by their own people? 4000 years upto 33AD... how many? David? Solomon? anyone else? you meant sura 36.... got a bit confused here... here is the tafsir for 36:13-14 [Shakir 36:13] And set out to them an example of the people of the town, when the messengers came to it. [Yusufali 36:13] Set forth to them, by way of a parable, the (story of) the Companions of the City. Behold!, there came messengers to it. [Pickthal 36:13] Coin for them a similitude: The people of the city when those sent (from Allah) came unto them; [Pooya/Ali Commentary 36:13] According to some commentators the reference in this verse is to Antioch which was a Greek city founded by Selcucus Nicator, one of the successors of Alexander, in about 300 B.C. in memory of his father, Antiochus. The city may be a symbolic entity populated by human society. [Shakir 36:14] When We sent to them two, they rejected both of them, then We strengthened (them) with a third, so they said: Surely we are messengers to you. [Yusufali 36:14] When We (first) sent to them two messengers, they rejected them: But We strengthened them with a third: they said, "Truly, we have been sent on a mission to you." [Pickthal 36:14] When We sent unto them twain, and they denied them both, so We reinforced them with a third, and they said: Lo! we have been sent unto you. [Pooya/Ali Commentary 36:14] Aqa Mahdi Puya says: In line with the style of the Quran whereby stories are forwarded as example it is told that Isa had sent two of his disciples to preach his message. When they came to the outskirts of a city, they met a shepherd who asked as to who they were. They replied that they were the messengers from Isa, the prophet of Allah, and had been sent to invite people to the religion of Allah. The shepherd wished to see if they had any signs to prove their bonafide. They said that they could cure the sick and restore sight to the born blind and cure the born lepers. On this, the shepherd took those men to his son who was sick for long and no one could help him. They prayed to Allah and the sick son of the shepherd was cured. The shepherd embraced the religion of Allah preached by Isa. Hearing about the arrival of these men in the city, the man known as "mumin of ali Yasin", who believed in the advent of the Holy Prophet, even 680 years before his coming, came out from his retreat and embraced the true faith, and a great number of sick in the city were cured by the disciples of Isa. The King, who was a stubborn non-believer, imprisoned those messengers of Isa. On hearing the fate of his messengers, Isa sent another of his disciple Simon who came to the city and pretended to belong to the King's faith (an example of taqiyyah) and gained influence over him. See Acts 11: 16. Thus, the despatch of two messengers was more strengthened by the third from Isa. This refers to the first two, the Holy Prophet and Ali and later Jafar joining them at the instance of Abu Talib, while the Holy Prophet and Ali were praying once in the Ka-bah. Simon's conduct here indicates the validity of taqiyyah and its proper use. I checked with acts 11... interestingly paul isnt mentioned until chapter 13... one who is not from God. Yes. A person from God. who speaks the words of God. a person who is sancioned by God to speak. viz Abraham, Noah,David,Solomon,Jesus,Moses etc... How about you? how do you define a Prophet? John 8:7 But as they continued to ask Him, He lifted Himself up and said to them, He who is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her. Please tell me this verse is outdated and doesnt fit in the 21st century... plz plz plz... tell me this verse is no good anymore... as the western culture is nore civilised and advanced... After your re-birth (if there was one... or if you always believed in Jesus as your saviour and didnt have to discover him again like most others) have you sinned? are you without sin? if you are not... then how will you enter heaven? isnt sin absolutely abhorable by God??? How will God let you in if He doesnt deal with you justly for those sins after your re-birth??Otherwise if you are let off the hook with no punishment then isnt this a free pass to sin??? Thought provoking ideas... think about it. Peace H2O : Waalaikum as-salam bro... thanks... altho we are different... we still ahve the same religion... the differences we have are mainly political of nature... as far as God, His Prophet and His Book go... there is no argument... how ever can the same be said of a christian? Peace... Ali |
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