And you were using them later on in your post as your advocate? This ambiguity is becoming tedious, either it is corrupt and you cannot use it period. which leaves you in a dilemma because islam then has no historical context or it shows islam for what it really is.
You are arguing in circles now, this is precisely how Bukhari and Muslim determined their sahih books because their isnads were sound and it didn't contradict the koran.
you misunderstand my point... the hadith books are not infallable... they are not the absolute word of God... hence they can be right or wrong... sort of like history books... it can be correct or not... because it is written by common error prone people...
Who do you think wrote the koran, amended it again and again?
common error prone people...people like you and i
... also you should know that the writers of bukhari and muslim... they didnt verify the info... they went around and collected it all and wrote it down... which is one of the reasons why you will find many duplicates or incomplete or partial hadiths... or some where the whole story is written and right after that the next hadith will be only a one-liner... So plz try to understand that these books are not an absolute authority... now about the authenticity... it differs from people to people... sects to sects... etc... some dont bother verification... some do. you see you need to understand the different muslim schools of thought to know how the verification is done...
Let's get straight to the point, where does the stone running away with Moses's clothes contradict the koran?
certain sects choose to accept all as true wether it makes sense or not.
Are you taking a shot at the 95% of islam that is sunni that accepts the hadiths of Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawod...? I read a shia hadith and the isnad included the prophet's donkey, I don't think you are in a position to pass judgement if your eminent shia scholars included a hadith on the authority of the prophet's donkey.
some accept only that seem logical and discard the illogical... etc... the general rule of thumb is if the hadith goes against the Quran ... then its false... even if it does go well with the Quran... the matter of fabrication still stands... it is a complicated process... something that just cant be explained in 1 paragraph... bottom line is there is some truth in them and there is some falsehood...
You are dodging the issue by telling me the process is complicated where does the stone running away with Moses's clothes contradict the koran?
Sura 49............................................
I do not believe Mohammed to be a man of God but a charlatan.
It doesnt matter one bit what you think or believe... your beliefs do not change anything... neither does mine...
Fact is Prophet Muhammed claimed to be a God-sent man
His word and his word alone, nobody heard from allah or jibreel to vouch or substantiate any of his claims, he is the judge juror and prosecutor in his own defense.
Fact is the arguing persons in question believed him to be who he claims
What are your reasons for believing the 'prophethood' of this man?
Fact is they did raise their voices in his presence
Fact is such behaviour is unacceptable in front of a person who others believe to be a God-sent person.
what on earth made those others to believe in his prophethood?
His say so?
The fact that he rolled on the floor akin to frothing at the mouth like he was having an epileptic fit is this a sign of prophethood?, complaining of ringing bells, heart palpitations, sweating on cold days, attempted to commit suicide after jibreel attacked him for his crime of not being able to 'read' or 'recite'?
Is this a sign of prophethood?
Which other prophet in the whole 4,000+ yrs of judaism and christianity exhibited these
symptoms?
Tell me... do you know the incident when Jesus rebuked Peter and called him satan??? why do you think he did that? Do you think it was because of something he said? like wise.... no real God-sent Prophet will tolerate insolence...
Asking people to leave your house so you can be private with your newly acquired wife which you 'stole' from your son, telling people not to raise their voice above yours and not ask you too many questions because you can't be bothered to keep the facade of your elaborate myths, and giving a prophetic statement of what Peter would do are hardly the same thing.
Let us see what Jesus said and then compare it with the behaviour of Mohammed:
Matthew 16:
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matthew 26:
32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.
33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.
34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.
In other words am I to believe that if you raise your voice above the prophet you are going to hell? What relevance does this have for the last 1300yrs seeing Mohammed has bseen dead for centuries?
The tafsir is fine... i dont see anything wrong with it... but i dont get the point of your objection... as i said above... what about Jesus and Peter?? and also... what is the point of documenting this incident between Jesus and Peter??? so wht if Peter temporarily was tempted by satan? or became satan or whatever the deal was then??? what is the significance to our 21st century world???
Wait a minute did your koran not claim to have a copy of it in heaven?
Do you honestly believe that God would have written down in a tablet in heaven the petty squabbles of Mohammed and Mohammed alone in the 7th century making it incumbent for the whole of mankind to keep reciting it in masjids for all time or no jannah for them?
Point is... A God-sent man is standing infront of you... who you believe to be a God-sent man... what do you do? shout?
You are jumping the gun, first you would have to prove that this man is a prophet after the God of the christians and jews, if you cannot show me a prophecy from this man he is not a prophet.
Maybe you should look into the history of the modern hijab, it was plagiarised from nuns working in Iran
Uhh... do you have any source to back this up with?? or is this another anti muslim literature info??
http://www.irandokht.com/forum/forumart ... tionID=245
It seems you misunderstood me these people were not from God but they witnessed the events, saw the miraculous signs, saw angels from God and heard the voice of God attesting to Jesus.
If an angel of the Lord visited you do you believe that the angel of the Lord is acting on God's behalf?
Tell me which angel visited Ali, or Abu Bakr or Uthman? or anybody else other than Mohammed?
No my friend ... i didnt misunderstand you... but i wanted to hear it from you. So now you say that these people whose names you provided were visited by angels... and when i say that Muhammed was visited by an angel its all of a sudden a lie...
Why don't we take it a step at a time:
Who did God or angel Gabriel say to "Mohammed is a prophet of God"?
Mohammed is the one who is saying "God told me to tell you that I am a prophet of God"
We only have Mohammed's say so do you not see how self serving this is to Mohammed, he alone can hear God? Absolutely nobody is vouching that they also got a message from God via the angel Gabriel that he is a prophet of God.
satanic... a joke??? why?? No.. no angels visited any of the other people. but then ... isnt satan capable of making himself visible in any shape and form?? is there any possibility of these "visitations" might just have been fron satan??? just like the incident between Jesus and Peter?? obviously you must be fuming right now... this is excatly how i or anyone else feels when such statements are made about Islam...
Why should I fume? Considering your koran also states that Jesus did do these things, and angels did visit people to vouch for him arguing from a self contradictory stance as this is the mind of someone who is prepared to degrade and humiliate themselves to get one up on the opposition, this is like using the arguments of an atheist against christianity even though those same arguments can be used against your own religion, time and time again I see it from muslims, it is sad to say symptomatic of the mind of a suicide bomber.
Are you telling me you are fuming because I say Mohammed is not a prophet of God?
Is this your faith? to freak out when someone comes to a rational decision like this? and have those people punished for blaspheming the name of the prophet?
"Behold this is the son in whom I am well pleased" ... satan speaking out loud?? I know all this sounds very harsh... but there are times when even the most patient goes ballistic...
Your analogy is not correct, I am coming from the stance that John the baptist is an independent prophet who vouched for Jesus, my question is very simple indeed, who vouched for Mohammed?
who said "allah/jibreel told me this fellow is a prophet"?
You forget one important thing which is the bane of this thread as to how God operates. God will always tell His prophets what He will do in the future. Jesus is all over the old testament, where is Mohammed which scripture in the old or new testament even remotely hints at Mohammed?
the person who interprets prophesies do so using their previous knowledge.. with bias with an answer already in mind. TOmato-ToMato...
Oh so the christians are bias in interpreting the judaic prophecies and aligning them to Jesus? What happened to the standard polemic of the christians and the jews corrupted their religious text? because if they didn't then the koran is a sham.
Your koran mentions that Jesus is the Messiah do you know why?
John the baptist did
The people of at the sea of galilee heard the declaration
Satan speaking out loud....
I do not believe any rational individual would see this in the analogy I am trying to show you.
I see it must be false because it disagrees with your conscience as to how islam was perceived by the islamic early fathers regardless of what the tafsir, hadiths or islamic rulings say? Then islam can never find any fault because you reject the obvious and reinterpret it in your own perspectives.
Then everything must be false that doesn't fall in line with your perception.
Sometimes I have to wonder if certain muslims see this like making a pizza, you select and discard the toppings you want.
and my response is the exact same to you... you agree with this concept only because it matches your bias.. your conscience... "Then Islam will never find any good because you reject the obvious and reinterpret it in your own persepctives. Then everything absurd must be true because it falls in line with your perception. ..... pizza... toppings..."
The bias comes from islamic scriptures, the hadiths of Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawod, Malik ... that shed light on the context, behaviour and lifestyle of Mohammed, this was not a prophet of God in any way shape or form and no one vouched for him.
Do you know why i cant find any faults with Islam???? because no one yet has brought any 100% undeniable unexplainable fault. every single apperent alleged fault brought forth is clarified. unlike the trinity. but thats besides the point..
How can you possibly find fault when I show you ayats of Mohammed sanctioning his own personal freedom to commit incest, and you tell me "you don't know why" God sanctioned it, case closed, God is great, with that kind of an attitude how can you possibly find fault in anything Mohammed does?
Pls tell me you are not this gullible, do you believe God is a respecter of persons?
Why would God respect a man to tolerate and excuse his sins when God abhors sin from anybody???
Tell me.. do you set the rules for God or does He set them for you??? do you life by His rules or He by yours?? If God can be 3 and one at the same time... then why not this???
You are still jumping the gun here, do you think that this is prevalent from a God who changeth not? a God who does not respect anybody to sanction and excuse the sins of any man, talk less of a prophet?
2 Chronicles 19:7
Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.
Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.
Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Ephesians 6:9
And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
compare with this behaviour:
sura 33:50
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Q. 66: 5.
"It may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you, Muslims (who submit to Allâh), believers, obedient to Allâh, turning to Allâh in repentance, worshipping Allâh sincerely, fasting or emigrants (for Allâh's sake), previously married and virgins.
It looks like it is one rule for Mohammed and one rule for the rest of the world, pls tell me you are not this gullible?
Trinity. Plz tell me you are not this gullible?
The standard muslim response when forced to confront their religion is to attack, the trinity is not the problem for a muslim even if you were to take away the whole concept of the trinity you still have to deal with Jesus He is listed almost 3 times more in your own koran than your 'holy' prophet, the problem is very simple, who is the Father of Jesus?
What do you think He did that the jews wanted to kill Him?
Since you used to be a catholic you are unaware who Zechariah is?
Sorry i dont. not every christian knows everysingle thing in the Bible. i was not a practicing christian. just a name sake... because there has to be something on paper... and because i was born as one... i didnt choose to be one. btw.. i have been baptised... so "once saved always saved" right?
I believe he is called Zakariyah in islam, if you believe pouring water over your head is salvation I have to wonder if were ever a catholic.
"This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased"
I find it a little strange you claimed to be a former catholic and are unaware of simple biblical quotes, would you like to tell me what makes John the baptist a prophet in islam?
If you read the whole passage... you will realise that the above statement was not a direct one on one converstation between John the Baptist and God... it was a proclamation... there is a difference...
Looks like we are finally making progress
So who made the proclamation for Mohammed that had received it from God?
If an angel of the Lord comes to speak to you do you agree that this is coming from God? Have you heard that no one can stand in the presence of God and live?
An angel did visit Mary magdalene at the tomb of Christ and told her He is risen, but since you claim to be a former catholic I didn't think I would have to tell you this.
Similarly an angel - Gabriel - visited Prophet Muhammed. how does one dispute that?
Suppose Mohammed was not 'well' many people have said Mohammed was displaying classic symptoms of schizophrenia. Who else was there to vouch for him, if the people are so superstitious to believe a lump between your shoulder blades was proof of prophethood what else could they believe. Mohammed had a problem, in his day rolling around on the floor frothing at the mouth was probably very rare, who knows if the arabs thought you were possessed by a jinn and may want to bury you along with the girl babies, best way out is to tell them you are from God and this is how "divine revelations" manifest themselves.
as for Mary Magdalene... i dont have the entire comparision here... but the 4 gospels record slightly different narrations... dont you agree???
Your alledged contradictions have been covered time and time again, I suggest you do a search for them on the board.
"...Do not hurt me regarding Aisha, AS THE DIVINE INSPIRATIONS DO NOT COME TO ME ON ANY OF THE BEDS EXCEPT THAT OF AISHA..." Bukhari volume 3 Number 755
False... Lies... satanic deception.
says who?
Do you know more than Bukhari?
or the early muslim historians?
Who are you to say this?
Do you realise all who said, gathered, collected and translated all these were not 20th century orientalists but
MUSLIMS
If you believe a wife gets upset with her husband because he drank honey you are more gullible than I thought, the only honey your prophet found was between the legs of Mariah!!!
I expect an apology for this comment... you are out of line... otherwise i will have to report it to the mods....
All I have said can be backed up by islamic scriptures:
Tabari 39:194 "He (Muhammad) used to visit her (Mariyam) there and ordered her to veil herself, [but] he had intercourse with her by virtue of her being his property."
Bukhari vol 3 648 "...The Prophet did not go to his wives because of the secret which Hafsa had disclosed to 'Aisha, and he said that he would not go to his wives for one month as he was angry with them when Allah admonished him (for his oath that he would not approach Maria
Koran 66:1 “O Prophet! Why forbid yourself that which Allah has made lawful to you? You seek to please your consorts. And Allah is Forgiving, Most Kind. Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”
Koran 8:69 “So enjoy what you took as booty; the spoils are lawful and good.”
Ishaq:327 “Allah made booty lawful and good. He used it to incite the Muslims to unity of purpose. So enjoy what you have captured.”
Koran 8:40 “If people are obstinate, and refuse to surrender, know that Allah is your Supporter. And know that one fifth of all the booty you take belongs to Allah, and to the Messenger, and for the near relatives (of the Messenger).”
Tabari VI:89 “Utaibah came before the Prophet and said: ‘I repudiate Islam.’ Then he spat at him, but his spital did not fall on him. The Prophet prayed: ‘O Allah, subject him to the power of a dog from among Your dogs.’”
Koran 70:28 “Preserve their chastity except with their wives and the slave girls they possess—for which there is no blame.”
Tabari VIII:116/Ishaq:511 “So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some of its people captive, including Safiyah, and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”
Tabari VIII:121/Ishaq:515 “Safiyah was brought to him, and another woman with her. Bilal led them past some of the Jews we had slain including the woman’s dead husband. When she saw them, the woman with Safiyah cried out, slapped her face, and poured dust on her head. When Allah’s Prophet saw her, he said, ‘Take this she-devil away from me!’”
Tabari VIII:123/Ishaq:515 “Allah’s Apostle besieged the final [Jewish] community until they could hold out no longer. Finally, when they were certain that they would perish, they asked Muhammad to banish them and spare their lives, which he did. The Prophet took possession of all their property.”
Tabari VIII:12 “‘Rejoice, Allah has promised us victory after tribulation.’ This increased the Muslims faith and submission. When cities were conquered Muslims used to say, ‘Conquer for yourselves whatever seems good to you because all treasures were given to Muhammad.”
Koran 24:58 “Believers, let your slave girls, and those who have not come to puberty, ask permission (before they come in your presence) on three occasions: before dawn, while you take off your clothes at midday, and after the night prayer. These are your times of undress—times of privacy for you. Outside those times it is not wrong for them to move about: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs.”
Ishaq:499 “The Apostle provided some compensation that included a castle, some property, a portion of the zakat tax, and a Copt slave girl.”
Tabari VIII:38 “The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism.”
Ishaq:466 “The Apostle chose one of the Jewish women for himself. Her name was Rayhanah. She remained with him until she died, in his power.”
Tabari VIII:97 “When I returned to Medina, the Prophet met me in the market and said, ‘Give me the woman.’ I said, ‘Holy Prophet of Allah, I like her, and I have not uncovered her garment.’ Muhammad said nothing to me until the next day. He again met me in the market and said, ‘Salamah, give me the woman.’ I said, ‘Prophet, I have not uncovered her garment but she is yours.’”
Ishaq:467 “Allah addressed the believers and said, ‘In Allah’s Apostle you have a fine example for anyone who hopes to be in the place where Allah is.’”
I am afraid I will call a spade a spade, you want me to sugar coat it and cover it up like imams do in the west even though it is in there written in black and white? I am not in the middle east, I wonder if you are one of those that would have people like me rouned up by the authorities for blaspheming the name of the prophet
Who is talking about Imran, did you read my original post, I was talkin of Mary being Aaron's contemporary sister, where does Imran fit in this?:
"Carrying the child, (Jesus), she (Mary) came to her people, who said to her: "Mary, this is indeed a strange thing! Sister of Aaron, your father was never a whore-monger, nor was your mother a harlot."" sura 19:27-28
My mistake... i got mixed up... here is the tafsir...
... The Quran and the Bible assert that Maryam and Zakariyya's wife were the descendants of Harun,...noted for virtue and piety, and not to the house of Dawud. In order to remove the discrepancies between the two genealogies, given in Matthew and Luke, the Christian Church wrongly tries to establish that one refers to Maryam and the other refers to Joseph, the alleged husband of Maryam, which is entirely based upon conjecture and is against the clear wordings of the Quran and the Bible...
Which bible are you reading?
Do you know which tribe the Messiah is supposed to come from?
and which tribe the circular world gets the name 'jew' from?
Do you realise you are indirectly contradicting your koran?
Does it contradict the koran?
Do you realise it is the basis for sura 33:69
Are you sure you reject this islamic doctrine because it contradicts the koran or because it contradicts your God given common sense devoid of 6th century arabic myths?
hope this answers your question...
You are sending me an unsubstantiated fairy story, so no it does not answer my question.
No this does not answer my query, where is your islamic jurispundence to relay to me this answer?
So men can have more than one wife because they can be guaranteed that they are the father? So women cannot have more than one husband because they cannot guarantee who the father is, your religion is all about guaranteeing who the father is so the man can get double the portion of the female, since he is the maintainer of the woman and is licensed to flog her when she is out of order, how can you expect anybody to tolerate this misogynist attitude of a religion.
Do you realise you are living in the 21st century and can utlilise a blood test to determine who the father is, maybe in retrospect then islam belongs in the 6th century, and I no way sanction adulery and fornication by polygamy or polyandry.
Well the OT is filled with polygamy...
Are you trying to justify islam using the previous revelations?
In that case why skip christianity totally and go to Judaism?
Didn't Jesus say anything about it?
If you are going to go back to the previous revelations to justify your religious angles why are you not a jew?
You are now giving me the definition of rape as if it supports your point of view, do you realise in the west men can be brought up on rape charges against their wives? Do you realise forcing a woman to have sex against her will married or not is rape?, I know your religion says angels will send curses on her till the monring if she doesn't give her husband sex because it seems allah had nothing better to do than guarantee the sexual satisfaction of his followers.
and do you realise that God is not american or european... or western for that matter...
Thanks for clarifying that a man "can never rape his wife" in the middle east
Tell me something who is the Father of Jesus according to your koran?
Who should we assign as His Father?
who is the Father of Adam?
A question with a question to avoid answering.
Where did Adam come from?
Where did Jesus come from?
Who caused Mary to become pregnant? Who do we assign as Jesus's Father?
, When Jesus says "
honour Me with the honour I had ...before the foundation of the world" what do you think He means?
Do you realise from His statement alone He was involved in creating Adam?
Jesus is Adam's Father.
When your koran says the jews wanted to kill Jesus what do you think He did? He must have done something, people don't want to kill for no reason.
Howmany Prophets do you know who were not percesuted by their own people? 4000 years upto 33AD... how many? David? Solomon? anyone else?
I dare you to show me one prophet from judaism that was not killed because He argued against the worship of false gods i.e idols, are you telling me the jews were not worshipping God during Jesus's time?
If we were to go by judaism Mohammed and co and that abomination of a black stone would have been levelled to the ground.
Islam respects paul
you meant sura 36.... got a bit confused here...
here is the tafsir for 36:13-14
where did you get this tafsir?
I assume this is a shia tafsir?
The King, who was a stubborn non-believer, imprisoned those messengers of Isa. On hearing the fate of his messengers, Isa sent another of his disciple Simon who came to the city and pretended to belong to the King's faith (an example of taqiyyah) and gained influence over him. See Acts 11: 16.
I have to wonder which bible whoever wrote this was reading
This is what Acts 11:16 says:
Acts 11
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Thus, the despatch of two messengers was more strengthened by the third from Isa. This refers to the first two, the Holy Prophet and Ali and later Jafar joining them at the instance of Abu Talib, while the Holy Prophet and Ali were praying once in the Ka-bah.
Simon's conduct here indicates the validity of taqiyyah and its proper use.
This is becoming embarassing.
I checked with acts 11... interestingly paul isnt mentioned until chapter 13...
Did you read my quote at all?
From the book "El-Sirah Al-Nabaweya" for the Ibn Hisham, the most respected reference about Muhamed's life and biography by muslims:
From the chapter of "Sending messanger by Muhamed to the Kings", page 870:
You respond by showing me a shia tafsir? with no relevance whatsoever to the subject.
How do you define a false prophet?
one who is not from God.
How do you know that they are not from God?
Do they have to tell you that they are not from God?
Or their actions, lifestyle, prophecies, miracles or lack of will tell you who they relaly are from?
Is anybody who says they are from God correct? Just their say so their word?, is the leader of the Ahmadiyya movement from God? is the Nation of islam from God, is the founder of Ba'haism from God?
In other words Mohammed is without sin?
Yes.
And you base this assumption from what sources?
So when Mohammed asked to be forgiven for his 'faults' somehow he is without sin?
First your analogy is completely off center. Abraham is the Father of many nations not a prophet, Noah is not a prophet, where are the prophecies of all these people islam automatically label prophets?
How do you define a prophet?
How about you? how do you define a Prophet?
"If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death."
Deuteronomy 18:19-22, 13:1-5
Matthew 7
15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
What are the fruits of Mohammed?
Multiple wives sanctioning adultery and fornication, misogynist attitudes to women, sanctioning the rape of female captives, belief that washing arms and ankles washes away sins, using odd numbers of tissues and other obsessive compulsive disorders, indirectly claiming God only listens to arabic, retracting words within a 23 yr span and claiming God did it..
A person from God. who speaks the words of God. a person who is sancioned by God to speak. viz Abraham, Noah,David,Solomon,Jesus,Moses etc...
Then you misunderstand christianity, by your notion of a christian if someone rapes somebody else I should keep quiet and never say a word do nothing not even tell the rapist he has done something bad.
John 8:7 But as they continued to ask Him, He lifted Himself up and said to them, He who is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.
Please tell me this verse is outdated and doesnt fit in the 21st century... plz plz plz... tell me this verse is no good anymore... as the western culture is nore civilised and advanced...
What are you trying to say here?
What do you mean when you ask if this verse doesn't belong in the 21st century?
What do you think christianity teaches about people who commit adultery and fornicaiton, do you think christianity teaches tht they should be flogged with 100 lashes or stoned to death?
What are you trying to say when you ask if this verse no longer relevant?
Everyody sins, there is only One who has never sinned and that one is God who is the perfect example, who will return to judge the world, the aim is to strive to be like Him
After your re-birth (if there was one... or if you always believed in Jesus as your saviour and didnt have to discover him again like most others) have you sinned? are you without sin? if you are not... then how will you enter heaven? isnt sin absolutely abhorable by God??? How will God let you in if He doesnt deal with you justly for those sins after your re-birth??Otherwise if you are let off the hook with no punishment then isnt this a free pass to sin???
Re-birth is buddhism/hinduism philosophy being born again has nothing to do with rebirth. As a christian you will be convicted of sin, your conscience will convict you, no one is without sin but with Christ the spirit will convict you to seek repentance and forgiveness for your sins. This is not a free pass to sin, if you were never born again the phrase "all things are become new" may be lost on you.
A born again christian will not suddenly be thinking "Hey I think I will go rob the bank today" if that was the sins he used to do before he was born again, but he would be convicted of things many would regard as trifle a bad thought here a bad thought there, which make him just as culpritable as robbing a bank in God's eyes.