Muslim gladiator wrote:
Quote:
If this is a problem, how do you explain that you a Muslim still believe in the Koran, when both the Koran and the Hadith and the early Islamic history prove that Allah’s revelation to Muhammad was corrupted, at the same moment revelation took place; was Allah not even able to protect his own revelation the moment he sent it.
This article below is about the Satanic verses in which Satan mingles his word with Allah’s revelation, the moment the Koran is revealed; Allah seems unable to hinder it. In what sense then, can we be assured that not the entire or great parts of the Koran are corruptions by Satan himself?
And let me also point out, that the author is an ex-Muslim who converted to Christianity:
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Responses ... verses.htm
Friend kai, every time you assure for me that you and your friends here are matures. Because, professionals do not depend on others but seek the evidence themselves. Professional never suggests query and this reply is included inside it.
Kai replies:
Then why do you make inquiries from liberal scholars
IF I AM ACTING LIKE A NON-PROFESSIONAL IN REFERRING TO MUSLIM OR EX-MUSLIM SCHOLARS, THEN WHY SHOULD I CONSIDER YOU A VALUABLE OPPONENT IN CONSULTING EHRMAN AND OTHERS?
WHY IS IT SUDDENLY UNPROFESSIONAL IN CONSULTING RELIABLE SOURCES (at least according to your critera), WHEN YOU HAVE DONE THIS ALL THE TIME?
COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF HERE?
Muslim gladiator wrote:
First of all the subject you are talking about is called "Shafait El-Gharaneek". And it has been discussed from more than hundred years ago anyways.
Kai replies:
But according to your criteria, at least the way you have approached the Bible and your main arguments it does matter?
Muslim gladiator wrote:
The story although it is not right and I will state here later why is not right?
Let us suppose this story is right, so this story will support speech of the correction of the Quran. Because it assures that the Quran we have now is right and can not be corrupted. Because when the Satan tried to say some words to be in the Quran, the God stop him. And there is not other story tells us that the Satan did that again anymore. So this story increases the faith not the opposite. The Satan tried but it failed, because God put the right words in the Quran after that. Then verse assures this idea too [22].
Kai replies:
If Satan was able to corrupt the Revelation which Allah sent to Muhammad, THEN HOW CAN WE ASSUME THAT ANYTHING IN THE KORAN IS TRUE; THIS IN NO WAY STRENGHTENS FAITH, IT DEBUNKES YOUR FAITH AND YOUR BOOK AND RELIGION!
Muslim gladiator wrote:
The translation of the meanings of the Quran by Pickthall [22]
{Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise;}
That is why Al- Tabari -who you cited his explanation- stated in his last words for explanation of this verse:
وقوله: { ثُمَّ يُحْكِمُ اللَّهُ آياتِهِ } يقول: ثم يخـلص الله آيات كتابه من البـاطل الذي ألقـى الشيطان علـى لسان نبـيه. { وَاللَّهُ عَلِـيـمٌ } بـما يحدث فـي خـلقه من حدث، لا يخفـى علـيه منه شيء. { حَكِيـمٌ } فـي تدبـيره إياهم وصرفه لهم فـيـما شاء وأحَبّ.
Which Means Allah will save His words from the false of Satan’s words?
Now let us state two approaches for unimpossibility of this story to be right:
Kai replies:
THE FIRST POINT IS, THAT THE SATANIC VERSES PERMITTED AND ENCOURAGED THE WORSHIP OF IDOLS.
NOTICE THAT THIS WAS ONCE A PART OF THE KORAN, AND WAS MIXED WITH REVELATION WHEN IT WAS GIVEN.
The SECOND point is, that the Allah of the Bible was not able to protect his word when revealed, THEN HOW WOULD HE ABLE TO PROTECT LATER?
WHETHER ALLAH ABOLISHED IT LATER ON, MAKES NO DIFFERENCE; ALLAH´S WORDS (or meaning, because according to Shabir Ally your Muslim scholar it is only a meaning) WAS CORRUPTED AT THE POINT OF REVELATION, AND THE WORSHIP OF IDOLS WAS PERMITTED.
THIS NEVER OCCURRED IN THE BIBLE, IN FACT JEWS AND CHRISTIANS WERE PROHIBITED TO FOLLOW ANY PROPHET TO EVER ENCOURAGED THE WORSHIP OF IDOLS.
THIS IS WHAT THE LAW OF MOSES SAID:
BUT A PROPHET WHO PRESUMES TO SPEAK IN MY NAME ANYTHING I HAVE NOT COMMANDED HIM TO SAY, OR A PROPHET WHO SPEAKS IN THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, MUST BE PUT TO DEATH (DEUT.18: 20)
Now do you get the point here bro, you claim that Christians corrupted the Scripture, I disagree, but even though you were correct, the actual message of the Koran when revealed was effected.
Secondly, HOW ON EARTH DO YOU EXPECT ME OR ANYONE HERE WHO BELIEVE IN A PROPHET WHO SPOKE IN THE NAME OF OTHER GODS.
WAS THIS POSSIBLY ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE JEWS DESPISED MUHAMMAD?
This is what Tabari wrote:
TABARI volume 6, page 107
SATAN CASTS A FALSE REVELATION ON THE MESSENGER OF GOD'S TONGUE
The messenger of God was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever ways he could. It is said that he wanted to find a way to do this, and what happened was a follows. (170)
Ibn Humayd - Salamah-Muhammad b. Ishaq - Yazid b. Ziyad al-Madani - Muhammad b. Ka'b al-Qurazi: When the messenger of God saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from God, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from God which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then God revealed
171)
"By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire..."
and when he came to the words:
Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?
Satan cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words:
"These are the high flying cranes; verily their intercession is accepted with approval. (172)
When Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from God, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake. When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, following their prophet, trusting in the message which he had brought and following his example. Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque (173) likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer orunbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. The one exception was al-Walid b. Al-Mughirah, who was a very old man and could not prostrate himself; but he took a handful of soil from the valley in his hand and bowed over that. Then they all dispersed from the mosque. The Quraysh left delighted by the mention of their gods which they had hared, saying,"Muhammad has mentioned our goes in the most favorable way possible, stating in his recitation that they are the high flying cranes and that their intercession is received with approval."
The news of the prostration reached those of the messenger of God's companions who were in Abyssinia and people said, "The Quraysh have accepted Islam." Some rose up to return, while others remained behind. Then Gabriel came to the Messenger of God and said, "Muhammad, what have you done? You have recited to the people that which I did not bring to you from God, and you have said that which was not said to you." Then the messenger of God was much grieved and feared God greatly, but God sent down a revelation to him, for He was merciful to him, consoling him and making the matter light for him, informing him that there had never been a prophet or a messenger before him who desired as he desired and wished as he wished but that Satan had cast words into his recitation, as he had cast words on Muhammad's tongue. Then God cancelled what Satan had thus cast, and established his verses by telling him that he was like other prophets and messengers, and revealed:
"Never did we send a messenger or a prophet before you but that when he recited (the Message) Satan cast words into his recitation (umniyyah). God abrogates what Satan casts. The God established his verses. God is knower, wise. (174)
Thus God removed the sorrow from his messenger, reassured him about that which he had feared and cancelled the words which Satan had cast on his tongue, that their gods were the high flying cranes whose intercession was accepted with approval. He now revealed, following the mention of "al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other," the words:
"Are yours the males and his the females? That indeed were an unfair division! They are but names which you have named, you and your fathers."
to the words:
to whom he wills and accept (175)
This means, how can the intercession of their gods avail with God?
When Muhammad brought a revelation from God canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His prophet, the Quraysh said,"Muhammad has repented of what he said concerning the position of your gods with God, and has altered it and brought something else." Those two phrases which Satan had cast on the tongue of the Messenger of God were in the mouth of every polytheists, and they became even more ill-disposed and more violent in their persecution of those of them who had accepted Islam and followed the messenger of God.
Those of the companions of the messenger of God who had left Abyssinia upon hearing that Quraysh had accepted Islam by prostration themselves with the messenger of God now approached.When they were near Mecca, they heard that the report that the people of Mecca had accepted Islam was false. Not one of them entered Mecca without obtaining protection or entering secretly. Among those who came to Mecca and remained there until they emigrated to al-Madinah and were present with the prophet at Badr, were, from the Banu Abd Shams b. Abd Manaf b. Quasyy, Uthman b. Afafan b. Abi al-As b. Umayyah, accompanied by his wife Ruaqyyah the daughter of the messenger of God; Abu Hudhayfah b. Utbah b. Rabiah b. Abd Shames, accompanied by his wife Sahlah bt. Suhalyl; together with a number of others numbering thirty three men.
Al-Qasim b. Al-Hasan - al Husayn b. Daud - Hajja - Abu Mashar - Muhammad b. Kab al-Qurazi and Muhammad b. Qays: The messenger of God was sitting in a large gathering of Quraysh, wishing that day that no revelation would come to him from God which could cause them to turn away from him. Then God revealed:
"By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived..."
and the Messenger of God recited it until he came to:
"Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?"
when Satan cast on his tongue two phrases:
"These are the high flying cranes; verily their intercession is to be desired. (176)
He uttered them and went on to complete the surah. When he prostrated himself at the end of the surah, the whole company prostrated themselves with him. Al-Walid b. al-Mughirah raised some dust to his forehead and bowed over that, since he was a very old man and could not prostrate himself. They were satisfied with what Muhammad had uttered and said, "We recognize that it is God who gives life and death, who creates and who provides sustenance, but if these gods of ours intercede for us with him, and if you give them a share, we are with you."
That evening Gabriel came to him and reviewed the surah with him, and when he reached the two phrases which Satan had cast upon his tongue he said, "I did not bring you these two." Then the messenger of God said, "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to him words which He has not spoken." Then God revealed to him:
"And they indeed strove hard to beguile you away from what we have revealed to you, that you should invent other than it against us...
to the words:
"and then you would have found no helper against us" (177)
He remained grief stricken and anxious until the revelation of the verse:
"Never did we send a messenger or a prophet before you... to the words...God is knower, wise. (178)
When those who had emigrated to Abyssinia heard that all the people of Mecca had accepted Islam, they returned to their clans, saying,"They are more dear to us"; but they found that the people had reversed their decision when God cancelled what Satan had cast upon the messenger of God's tongue.
These are words of an early Muslim scholar, not mine, nor the words of a none-Muslim; your own religion confirms that the incident took place.
Muslim gladiator wrote:
Logical approach:
1-This story against the truth of the right verses of the Quran [53:3-4]
{ وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ ٱلْهَوَىٰ } * { إِنْ هُوَ إِلاَّ وَحْيٌ يُوحَىٰ }
The Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Pickthall
{[53]Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire.
[53]It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired,}.
2- Quran [69: 44-46]
{ تَنزِيلٌ مِّن رَّبِّ ٱلْعَالَمِينَ } * { وَلَوْ تَقَوَّلَ عَلَيْنَا بَعْضَ ٱلأَقَاوِيلِ } * { لأَخَذْنَا مِنْهُ بِٱلْيَمِينِ } * { ثُمَّ لَقَطَعْنَا مِنْهُ ٱلْوَتِينَ }
The Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Pickthall
{[69]And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us,
[69]We assuredly had taken him by the right hand
[69]And then severed his life-artery,}.
3- Quran [10]
{ وَإِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُنَا بَيِّنَاتٍ قَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ لاَ يَرْجُونَ لِقَآءَنَا ٱئْتِ بِقُرْآنٍ غَيْرِ هَـٰذَآ أَوْ بَدِّلْهُ قُلْ مَا يَكُونُ لِيۤ أَنْ أُبَدِّلَهُ مِن تِلْقَآءِ نَفْسِيۤ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلاَّ مَا يُوحَىۤ إِلَيَّ إِنِّيۤ أَخَافُ إِنْ عَصَيْتُ رَبِّي عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ عَظِيمٍ }
The Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Pickthall
{[10]And when Our clear revelations are recited unto them, they who look not for the meeting with Us say: Bring a Lecture other than this, or change it. Say (O Muhammad): It is not for me to change it of my accord. I only follow that which is inspired in me. Lo! if I disobey my Lord I fear the retribution of an awful Day.}
Kai replies:
This proves absolutely nothing; it simply proves that Muhammad left the satanic inspiration to enter him, when God revealed his word. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT GOD’S REVELATION AND SATANIC INSPIRATION MIXES?
Muslim gladiator wrote:
Is this story is true, so did Satan give our prophet (Peace and Mercy of Allah be upon him) this verse in this same Surah as well:
4 -Quran [22-62]
{ ذٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ ٱللَّهَ هُوَ ٱلْحَقُّ وَأَنَّ مَا يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِهِ هُوَ ٱلْبَاطِلُ وَأَنَّ ٱللَّهَ هُوَ ٱلْعَلِيُّ ٱلْكَبِيرُ }
The Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Pickthall
{[22]That is because Allah, He is the True, and that whereon they call instead of Him, it is the false, and because Allah, He is the High, the Great.}
This verse includes an invitation from the worship Allah because He is only the truth and worshiping anything else instead of Him is false. Does Satan say that? That means he is faith Satan. It will be the first Satan in the history asked people to worship God and no one else.
5- Quran[22]
{ أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي ٱلأَرْضِ وَٱلْفُلْكَ تَجْرِي فِي ٱلْبَحْرِ بِأَمْرِهِ وَيُمْسِكُ ٱلسَّمَآءَ أَن تَقَعَ عَلَى ٱلأَرْضِ إِلاَّ بِإِذْنِهِ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ بِٱلنَّاسِ لَرَءُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ }
Kai replies:
It does not matter! What matters is the fact that satans word were mixed with the word of God! My question is then, what else is a result of mixture.
In other words there is no logic in your argument!
Muslim gladiator wrote:
The Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Pickthall
{[22]Hast thou not seen how Allah hath made all that is in the earth subservient unto you ? And the ship runneth upon the sea by His command, and He holdeth back the heaven from falling on the earth unless by His leave. Lo! Allah is, for mankind, Full of Pity, Merciful.}
It Satan was saying words of the Quran, so it will be for the first time in the history that Satan recite the Blessing of God for us.
6- Looking at verse [22] which is next to the verse [22] will give a guide for our point,
{ لِّيَجْعَلَ مَا يُلْقِي ٱلشَّيْطَانُ فِتْنَةً لِّلَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ وَٱلْقَاسِيَةِ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَإِنَّ ٱلظَّالِمِينَ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ }
{[22]That He may make that which the devil proposeth a temptation for those in whose hearts is a disease, and those whose hearts are hardened - Lo! the evil-doers are in open schism}
If you read this verse, you would not give me a site and make a problem from nothing. Did Satan give our prophet verse 22, and then in the next verse he warned us that his propose is just a temptation? Will Satan call his propose as a temptation for those in whose hearts is a disease and have heard hearts?
Really, that will be a righteous Satan. First he warned us from his propose then he gives us the Blessings of God on us then finally asked us to pray and follow God at the end of the Surah [22-78]
{ وَجَاهِدُوا فِي ٱللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ ٱجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي ٱلدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ ٱلْمُسْلِمِينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَـٰذَا لِيَكُونَ ٱلرَّسُولُ شَهِيداً عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُواْ شُهَدَآءَ عَلَى ٱلنَّاسِ فَأَقِيمُواْ ٱلصَّلاَةَ وَآتُواْ ٱلزَّكَـاةَ وَٱعْتَصِمُواْ بِٱللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلاَكُمْ فَنِعْمَ ٱلْمَوْلَىٰ وَنِعْمَ ٱلنَّصِيرُ }
Kai replies:
Why would it makes satan righteous? Satan knows reality, Satan also knows the truth mixed with lies is the best of all fabrication; AND THAT IS WHAT THE KORAN IS.
THE POINT HERE IS, THAT I WILL NEVER BELIEVE IN A BOOK THAT WAS EFFECTED BY SATAN AT THE MOMENT OF REVELATION.
IF SATAN WAS BEHIND IT, THEN IT VERIFIES THAT GOD WAS UNABLE TO PROTECT HIS WORD
IF MUHAMMAD DID IT BECAUSE OF PRESSURE CAUSED BY THE MECCANS, THAN HE IS A FALSE PROPHET AND ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF MOSES HE SHOULD BE STONED.
Whatever you say, if the BIBLE SHOULD BE REJECTED BECAUSE A FEW WORDS WERE ONCE ADDED (AND WE KNOW WHICH THEY ARE), ARE WE NOT THEN TO REJECT THE KORAN BECAUSE OF SATANIC EFFECTION?
IF WOULD CERTAINLY SAY THAT THIS IS A PROBLEM.
CAN YOU FIND ANY VERSE IN THE BIBLE WHICH WAS INCLUDED IN THE BIBLE BY SATANIC INSPIRATION?
Muslim gladiator wrote:
The Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Pickthall
{[22]And strive for Allah with the endeavour which is His right. He hath chosen you and hath not laid upon you in religion any hardship; the faith of your father Abraham (is yours). He hath named you Muslims of old time and in this (Scripture), that the messenger may be a witness against you, and that ye may be witnesses against mankind. So establish worship, pay the poor-due, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protecting friend. A blessed Patron and a blessed Helper!}
7-What is really interesting that the Satan put a verse includes one of miracles of the
Quran in the same Surah [22]
{ يٰأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ضُرِبَ مَثَلٌ فَٱسْتَمِعُواْ لَهُ إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ تَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ لَن يَخْلُقُواْ ذُبَاباً وَلَوِ ٱجْتَمَعُواْ لَهُ وَإِن يَسْلُبْهُمُ ٱلذُّبَابُ شَيْئاً لاَّ يَسْتَنقِذُوهُ مِنْهُ ضَعُفَ ٱلطَّالِبُ وَٱلْمَطْلُوبُ }
{[22]O mankind! A similitude is coined, so pay ye heed to it: Lo! those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from it. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!}
Until now we have found anyone can create a fly, the best things the scientists can do right now is just play in DNT of an animal or Insect. They could make Space Ships but they could not make a fly like how Quran said from 1400 years ago?
Kai replies:
Ha Ha Ha, typical
The verse does not predict airplanes, nor is it a miracle
It is a parable (as Yusuf Ali translates it)
Secondly, the verse clearly states that mankind will never be able to do it, and even though they could they would never be able to make it fly.
IF IT IS ANYTHING, THEN IT IS FALSE PROPHECY?
Secondly, the idea about flying in planes or aircrafts was a common idea in the ancient days, particularly among the Hindues:
Here is just on example of many from the Rig Veda (and the Hindu scripture get into details):
GUARDIANS of Order, ye whose Laws are ever true, in the sublimest heaven your chariot ye ascend.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv05063.htm
I have found a range of scientic similarities between the Rig Veda of the Hindus and the Koran, such as mountains being thrown down upon the earth, stars and meteorites being used as missilies, etc; I am preparing a post on this.
Muslim gladiator wrote:
Where is your mind Friend Kai, For more about That go and read all the verses [22:53-78] .
Practical Approach:
All the stories about this story are “Morsala” And if your studied Hadith you will know that The Scientists of Hadith put into their consideration that the “Hadith Morsal” is just a weak one and we do not depend of it. Hadith Morsal means, Stating hadith without a name of friends of our prophet (peace and Mercy of Allah be upon him), So it will be a gab between the person who stated it and our prophet (peace and Mercy of Allah be upon him).
Al- Tabari depend on his story on someone called “Mohamed ibn Kab Al Kourizy” and for the people who studied hadith (Which I wish to be one of them Kai even if you will not be a Muslim) know that he does not live in the age of our prophet (Peace of Allah be upon him), but his father did. Read, El-Tahzeeb for Ibn Hajar El- Askalani.
Al- Tabari depends on some other stories and all of them are “Morsala”
Ibn Kathir Stated that in his introduction of his explanation of this verse, And as a matter of fact Ibn Kather is professional Islamic Scientis of Haith:
قد ذكر كثير من المفسرين ههنا قصة الغرانيق، وما كان من رجوع كثير من المهاجرة إلى أرض الحبشة؛ ظناً منهم أن مشركي قريش قد أسلموا، ولكنها من طرق كلها مرسلة، ولم أرها مسندة من وجه صحيح، والله أعلم. (The introduction of Ibn-Kathir Explanation for [22]
Al-Shokani , a professional in Haith
قال البزار: هذا حديث لا نعلمه يروى عن النبيّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بإسناد متصل. وقال البيهقي: هذه القصة غير ثابتة من جهة النقل، ثم أخذ يتكلم أن رواة هذه القصة مطعون فيهم. وقال إمام الأئمة ابن خزيمة: إن هذه القصة من وضع الزنادقة. قال القاضي عياض في الشفاء: إن الأمة أجمعت فيما طريقه البلاغ أنه معصوم فيه من الإخبار عن شيء بخلاف ما هو عليه، لا قصداً ولا عمداً ولا سهواً ولا غلطاً. قال ابن كثير: قد ذكر كثير من المفسرين ها هنا قصة الغرانيق، وما كان من رجوع كثير من المهاجرين إلى أرض الحبشة ظناً منهم أن مشركي قريش قد أسلموا، ولكنها من طرق كلها مرسلة، ولم أرها مسندة من وجه صحيح. (Al Shokani – Fath El- Kader- the Explanations of [22])
Al-Razi, another Professional in Haith
وأما السنة فهي ما روي عن محمد بن إسحق بن خزيمة أنه سئل عن هذه القصة فقال هذا وضع من الزنادقة وصنف فيه كتاباً.
وقال الإمام أبو بكر أحمد بن الحسين البيهقي هذه القصة غير ثابتة من جهة النقل ثم أخذ يتكلم في أن رواة هذه القصة مطعون فيهم، وأيضاً فقد روى البخاري في صحيحه أن النبي عليه السلام قرأ سورة النجم وسجد فيها المسلمون والمشركون والإنس والجن وليس فيه حديث الغرانيق. وروي هذا الحديث من طرق كثيرة وليس فيها ألبتة حديث الغرانيق (Al-Razi –Mafateeh El-Ghub, El- tafsir El- Kabir), the explanation of [22].
Then he stated many evidences for in a long search to show how this story is wrong. You can go there for more about this issue.
Kai replies:
This is becoming a waste of time. THERE ARE FOUR EARLY ISLAMIC WRITERS WHO CONFIRM THIS.
REMEMBER AND NOTICE, THIS IS NOT MY IDEA OR PROPOSITION, THIS IS STATED BY YOUR OWN SCHOLARS.
AND REMEMBER, THAT I AM UTILIZING YOUR CRITERIA TO DISCOVER TRUTH; IN OTHER WORDS I AM NOT REFERING TO NON-MUSILM SCHOLARS TO POINT THIS OUT, BUT EARLY MUSLIM SCHOLARS WHO TIME-WISE WERE NEAR TO THE ERA OF THE EVENT.
I AM SIMPLY SAYING WHAT MUSLIM SCHOLARS ARE STATING!
THIRDLY, AS WE BOTH KNOW, THE INCIDENT IS REFERRED TO IN BOTH THE KORAN AND THE HADITH.
WHICH IS WHY, YOU AS A MUSLIM SHOULD BELIEVE IT
AND WHICH IS WHY AS A CHRISTIAN IS NOT REJECT ISLAM AND THE KORAN
Muslim gladiator wrote:
So what is the explanation of this verse then, the best explanation of the
Quran is the Quran:
Muslim gladiator wrote:
The translation of the meanings of the Quran by Pickthall [22]
{Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise;}
Kai replies:
Well Yusuf Ali translates this passage in this way:
‘Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before you, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in…’
Now my question is:
WHICH OF THESE VERSIONS IS THE RIGHT ONE, DO WE HAVE TWO QUR’ANS? DID ALLAH OPPOSE HIM OR THROW DESIRE INTO HIM? (now I am using your tactic and criteria)?
IF THE PASSAGE MERELY PROPOSES OPPOSITON, WHAT DOES PICKTHALL WRITE: ‘BUT ALLAH ABOLISHETH WHICH SATAN PROPOSETH. THEN ALLAH ESTABLISHET HIS REVELATIONS’
This SPEAKS ABOUT CORRUPTION NOT REVELATION!
Muslim gladiator wrote:
The verse stated that the Satan proposed in respect to that which the messenger or prophet recited, which means Satan wanted him to stop reciting the words of God, or tells him to delay reciting this verse at this time because it is not the appropriate time to say it. Every Messenger or prophet wished to be away of this mission, because it is so hard to be taken. Because of who take this mission, he should be an enemy for his people plus the pain he got from them. Mosses and Jesus (Peace of Allah be upon them) suffered a lot with their people. Old Testament and New testament tells us that. For example in the Gospel of John, Jesus (Peace of Allah be upon him and his pure mother) declared that the world hates him because of his mission [John 7:7]. And in Gospel of Luke he declared that he came to the world not for peace but for division (father against son and son against father…….[Luke 12: 49-53].
Kai replies:
Don’t make a comparison between Moses, Jesus and Muhammad; neither Moses nor Jesus recited a mixed message, they were opposed, but never encouraged idolworship.
MOSES NEVER TOLD THE PEOPLE TO WORSHIP IDOLS!
JESUS NEVER TOLD THE PEOPLE TO WORSHIP IDOLS!
MUHAMMAD ENCOURAGED IDOLWORSHIP
Muslim gladiator wrote:
Quran [28]
{ وَمَا كُنتَ تَرْجُوۤ أَن يُلْقَىٰ إِلَيْكَ ٱلْكِتَابُ إِلاَّ رَحْمَةً مِّن رَّبِّكَ فَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ ظَهيراً لِّلْكَافِرِينَ }
{[28]Thou hadst no hope that the Scripture would be inspired in thee; but it is a mercy from thy Lord, so never be a helper to the disbelievers.}
That is why our prophet (Peace of Allah be upon him) did not wished to have this mission because it is so hard. So God tells him this Quran is a Mercy from God. And tells him to for not be a helper for the Unbelievers if they asked him to do something God does not order him to do. Once upon a time unbelievers came to our prophet (Peace and Mercy of Allah be upon him) and they asked him if it is possible to worship Allah for one year and then he worship their gods for another year.
Kai replies:
Many figures in history accomplished great things, even though they hated their vision and hated the hard nature of it; it does not confirm truth!
Muslim gladiator wrote:
Read this verse in the Quran [7]
{ كِتَابٌ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ فَلاَ يَكُنْ فِي صَدْرِكَ حَرَجٌ مِّنْهُ لِتُنذِرَ بِهِ وَذِكْرَىٰ لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ }
The Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Arthur J. Arberry:
{[7]A Book sent down to thee -- so let there be no impediment in thy breast because of it -- to warn thereby, and as a reminder to believers:}
That is how we can understand the verse and Allah knows more.
What is really interesting is not this situation but Jesus’ situation (Peace of Allah be upon him and his pure mother) when the Satan asked him to worship him and in the return the Satan will give him the entire world. It is the first time in the history that Satan asked (God) according to Christian’s point of view to worship him in a situation never happened before even if for Pagans. Satan suggested giving God the kingdom of the entire world with its authority and glory. Satan (one of God’s Creatures) wanted to give God the kingdom of the world plus what, its authority and glory. Can you imagine that? Satan has what is not God’s have according to Christian’s point of view!
Kai replies:
How do you understand Trinity.
Does the Bible say that satan tempted the entire Divine one? No!
The Son!
We are looking at the revelation of God in the realm of creation
Muslim gladiator wrote:
And what more interesting were the answers of Jesus himself, which assures how he is just a human being. He did not tell the Satan all of these kingdoms are mine and showed him more. Or even if showed the Satan his power (Jesus who could return the life for the dead people and walked on the water- of Course by the Power of God) or even if ordered him to sharp up but, he just told him “it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God”. He even did not tell the Satan to worship him like how the Satan asked him. In all the entire Bible Jesus (Peace of Allah be upon him and his pure) mother) never told anyone to worship him. It is the second magic of Christianity, God never tells His people to worship Him.
Kai replies:
Jesus clearly stated that the kingdom was his:
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil (Matthew 13: 41)
However, Matthew 4 does not refer to the Kingdom of God but earthly kingdoms! (just in case you have mixed these two up)
Interesting, His kingdom, His angels; will Muhammad ever send his angels?
Notice also the teaching of John the Baptist (Matthew 3: 1-12)
Muslim gladiator wrote:
Luke 4:5-8 (New International Version)
{5The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7So if you worship me, it will all be yours."
8Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.}
Look at the the phrase “Led him up to the high” can you even imagine a God could be led up. Satan will not ask who has all of the power of the world to worship him. Satan will never offer to give the kingdoms of the world to who already have it but Satan can ask a human being this question in a trail for driving him away of the straight road. Satan did the same with our father and mother (Adam and Eva peace of Allah be upon them).
Kai replies:
As I pointed out before you misunderstand the actual doctrine on the Trinity; did Satan take God up, no he took the Son up!
Muslim gladiator wrote:
Let me end my article here by those words from Act 2:22 (NIV)
“22"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know”
He was just a man and good Messenger (Peace of Allah be upon him and his pure mother).
TO be continued insha Allah with evide
Kai replies:
Christians never doubted that he was a man, but at the same time he was God, this is why Acts 2 continues and says:
‘Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear’ (Acts 2: 33).
Acts 2: 22 is also in accordance to Jesus words in John 14
My question is: did Muhammad send the Holy Spirit?