Christian/Muslim ThreadsScholar Bart Ehrman confess that the Bible we have is .... :: Reples of Old aricles 2Reples of Old aricles 2 One of the Islamic Scholars you have stated is my favorite (Ibn Hazm) I read a lot of his books mysefl. I am Zahary. I was the only one in my two who follows Zaharaya Mathab (Zaharaya way). Anyways, I have told you before two things: 1- Do not repeat others words like a parrot. Try to look for the sources yourself. 2- Do not give a lot words without no sense. You gave me a long article to assure your idea but, where did the Muslims scientists say that? Where are the main sources from their books? In which epistle of Ibn al-layth did he say that? For whom did Ibn al-layth send his epistle? I really did not get who do you mean by al-Layth . If you mean Al-Layth the Imam who lived in Egypt in the second Islamic century, you are totally wrong. You should read his fiqh first before you talk about the man. I will suppose you are right, although that is impossible for an Imam like “Al- Layth Ibn Sad”. And I repeat that is impossible, anyways, and I say it is impossible for many logical reasons, 1- Quran ordered Christians to the idea of trinity [4]. While Anajeel (Gospels) assure this idea. 2- Quran desribes the people who said Jesus is a God with unbelief [5]. While Anajeel (Gospels) consider them the only faithful believers. 3- Quran differs from the Anajeel “Gospels” in the main though, Quran describes the people who believe in trinity with unbelief [5]. 4- Quran assures that Isa (Jesus) is just a human being like Adam (Peace of Allah be upon them both) [3] 5- Quran assures that Isa (Jesus) (Peace of Allah be upon him and his pure Mother) glad tidings to messenger will come after him called Ahmed [61]. Which we will assure it with very clear evidences in my next article InshaAllah. Christians refuse this idea. 6- Quran assures that Isa (Jesus) (Peace of Allah be upon him and his pure Mother) is a messenger of God and denies the Christian thought about him of being killed on the cross [4]. 7- Quran states that Christians forget some parts of their real Holy Book [5]. So, for all of these differences between the Quran the Bible in the basic belief, it makes unimpossibility for Imam like Al-Layth to say something against his main belief. Otherwise how does it come for a Muslim believe in the Quran after reading and understanding all of the verses in the Quran can imagine the Bible have not been corrupted. Indeed The Bible is still being corrupted until now 2006? And Ibn layth was not an ordinary man, he was a good Muslim scholar InshaAllah. Second, do you think anyone can believe the Bible is not corrupted after reading something like that? Mark 1:9-13 (New International Version) {9At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased." 12At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, 13and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.} Compare that to John 1 (New International Version) {32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God." 35The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. 36When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, "Look, the Lamb of God!"} Which one should we believe? How does it come? Did the Spirit send him out into the desert for forty days? Or John met him in the next day? Do you want one of many more? John 3:13-15 (New International Version) {13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.} Compare this to Genesis 5:24 (New International Version) {24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.} 2 Kings 2:11 (New International Version) {11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.} Although I think I talked enough about this subject. I found an important person your writer E. J. Brill Leiden 1996 (Brill Academic Publishers 1997) have stated him in the list, Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (838-923)? Have you ever tried to read his tafsir (Explanations) for the verses of the Quean before citing his tafsir (Explanations)? Here is a small lesson I hope you really learn from it. Never repeat others words like a parrot? Do not be immature. I am just going to give you a simple evidence to assure for you and everyone here how much your author avoided the truth or she might not read Tafsir Al-Tabari like how it should be. That is the main context for the explanation for the verse of the Quran by Al-Tabari for [5] to assure for you and all the people who cares here that they studying of you writer was not right. يقول عزّ ذكره: وأخذنا من النصارى الـميثاق علـى طاعتـي وأداء فرائضي واتبـاع رسلـي والتصديق بهم، فسلكوا فـي ميثاقـي الذي أخذته علـيهم منهاج الأمة الضالة من الـيهود، فبدّلوا كذلك دينهم ونقضوا نقضهم وتركوا حظهم من ميثاقـي الذي أخذته علـيهم بـالوفـاء بعهدي وضيعوا أمري. كما: حدثنا بشر، قال: ثنا يزيد، قال: ثنا سعيد، عن قتادة: { وَمِنَ الَّذِينَ قالُوا إنَّا نَصَارَى أخَذْنا مِيثاقَهُمْ فَنَسُوا حَظًّا مِـمَّا ذُكَّرُوا بِهِ }: نسوا كتاب الله بـين أظهرهم، وعهد الله الذي عهده إلـيه، وأمر الله الذي أمرهم به. حدثنا مـحمد بن الـحسين، قال: ثنا أحمد بن مفضل، قال: ثنا أسبـاط، عن السديّ، قال: قالت النصارى مثل ما قالت الـيهود، ونسوا حظًّا مـما ذكِّروا به……….. So as you see here Al-Tabari stated that Christians took the same way of Jews who are astray. Also they CHANGE THEIR RELIGION and they broke their promises. And that is the Al-Tabari himself described Christians with losing the straight way and ignorance. That is the main context for the explanation for the verse of the Quran by Al-Tabari for [5] هذا ذمّ من الله عزّ ذكره للنصارى والنصرانـية الذين ضلوا عن سبل السلام، واحتـجاج منه لنبـيه مـحمد صلى الله عليه وسلم فـي فريتهم علـيه بـادعائهم له ولداً، يقول جلّ ثناؤه: أقسم لقد كفر الذين قالوا: إن الله هو الـمسيح بن مريـم، وكفرهم فـي ذلك تغطيتهم الـحقّ فـي تركهم نفـي الولد عن الله جلّ وعزّ، وادّعائهم أن الـمسيح هو الله فرية وكذبـاً علـيه. وقد بـينا معنى الـمسيح فـيـما مضى بـما أغنى عن إعادته فـي هذا الـموضع. القول فـي تأويـل قوله تعالـى: { قُلْ فَمَنْ يَـمْلِكُ مِنَ اللّهِ شَيئْاً إنْ أرَادَ أنْ يُهْلِكَ الـمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَـمَ وأُمَّهُ وَمَنْ فِـي الأرْضِ جَمِيعاً }. يقول جلّ ثناؤه لنبـيه مـحمد صلى الله عليه وسلم: قل يا مـحمد للنصارى الذين افتروا علـيّ، وضلوا عن سواء السبـيـل، بقـيـلهم: إن الله هو الـمسيح ابن مريـم { مَنْ يَـمْلِكُ مِنَ اللّهِ شَيْئاً } يقول: من الذي يطيق أن يدفع من أمر الله جلّ وعزّ شيئاً، فـيردّه إذا قضاه من قول القائل: ملكت علـى فلان أمره: إذا صار لا يقدرأن ينفذ أمراً إلا به. وقوله: { إنْ أرادَ أنْ يُهْلِكَ الـمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَـمَ وأُمَّهُ وَمَنْ فـي الأرْضِ جَمِيعاً } يقول: من ذا الذي يقدر أن يردّ من أمر الله شيئاً إن شاء أن يهلك الـمسيح ابْن مريـم بإعدامه من الأرض وإعدام أمه مريـم، وإعدام جميع من فـي الأرض من الـخـلق جميعاً. يقول جلّ ثناؤه لنبـيه مـحمد صلى الله عليه وسلم: قل لهؤلاء الـجهلة من النصارى لو كان الـمسيح كما يزعمون أنه هو الله، ولـيس كذلك لقدَر أن يردّ أمر الله إذا جاءه بـاهلاكه وإهلاك أمه، وقد أهلك أمه فلـم يقدر علـى دفع أمره فـيها إذ نزل ذلك، ففـي ذلك لكم معتبر إن اعتبرتـم، وحجة علـيكم إن عقلتـم فـي أن الـمسيح بشر كسائر بنـي آدم، وأن الله عزّ وجلّ هو الذي لا يغلب ولا يقهر ولا يردّ له أمر، بل هو الـحيّ الدائم القـيوم الذي يُحيى ويـميت، وينشىء ويفنـي، وهو حيّ لا يـموت. So do you still think someone like Al-Tabari just thought Jews corrupted their books? We do not need a proof more what? Ibn Hazm has his own books Friend Kai. Have you read any one it before you write? When you talk about God and His words, it is not just copy and paste? It is tracing and long years of searching. In the scientific discussion, you should state the source. It is the same problem of the Bible itself, just translation without a source. When I started my first article here I said “Mr. Bart Ehram confesses..." then I gave you the source. You gave me an idea of a person who is not Muslim Let us just give some lights about your smart points, Really, do you think people the oldest one of them from the 3rd century can be considerate like the first Muslims? What is about the Muslim from first and second Islamic centuries? What is about Abo Bakr, Omar Ibn El-Khatab,... and others of our prophet's friends? The people who lived during our prophet (Peace and Mercy of Allah be upon him) themselves? Do you believe yourself brother? What is really interesting in this article what you have said, You stated three Islamic scientists do not affect the Muslims’ minds at all. The people who said the Bible is corrupted and affected the Muslims’ minds, whose are the people that still affect the Muslim's minds until now. The four Imams, 1-An-Númān ibn Thābit (699 - 765) 2-Malik ibn Anas ibn Malik ibn 'Amr al-Asbahi (715 - 796) 3-Abu 'Abd Allah ash-Shafi'i (767 - 820) 4- Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal (780 - 855) And as you see, all of them were in the second Islamic century More than 98% percent around the world of Sunni Muslims follows their teaching until now. Plus al-Bukhari (810 - 870 AD) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukhari and Muslim (810-870) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_b._al-Hajjaj Every Muslim even if who is converted knows who are those people. You stated seven scicents really does not effect us plus you did not state the name of their books for example, What is really funny that not many people in the entire Islamic world, especially in Arabic world know someone called, "Ibn Hazm". Very few people around the world and I am one of them who are zahary mathab and follows his Mathab. By the way, in his Book, "El- Mohala bel Athar" he stated everything in details about the earlier Muslims opinions about the Bible. "El-Mohala bel Athar"threen parts. Go and read. Note: Even if Al-Azhar in Egypt does not study Ibn-Hazm Mathab for their students. I think you mean ibn Qutayba (828-889), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Qutayba And as you see he is from the 3 century of Islam, not from the first Muslims. And as you see "Ibn Qutayba used the Torah not only as a book in which the advent of the Prophet is foretold but also as a historical source ". Ahamed Deddat used the Bible to assure that Jesus was just a messenger of God and he always believed the Bible is corrupted. And many Unbelievers use the Bible as historical document in some cases. But that does not mean they believe in it or they believe in everything it contains. Some Christians believed that our Prophet Mohamed (Peace and Mercy of Allah be upon him) is the greatest man in the history, although they never believe in him as a Messenger. Go and read The 100, Michael H. Hart, Carol Publishing Group, July 1992. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100 Moreover that, I will assure to you how is your book corrupted and it is still until now, 2005 in further blow of this article InshaAllah. The last thing about this issue, we do not need any opinion about the corrupted of the Bible from anyone, we have the Quran judgment about this issue? And it is so enough for us? Really?! First of all, which Torah (Old Testament) and Injeel (New Testament) do you refer to it brother? Protestant Bible (Old and New Testament) (with 66 Books) or Catholic Bible (with 73 Books)! I wish to know which Bible do you want me to use to argue with you but? It seems to me you are Protestant with 66 Books in the Holy Book. Note: Argument with Catholics differs from argument with Protestants. That is not Our subject right now. Let us take into our consideration a real facts about the First Christians you might not understand it. And when I say here First Christians, I mean Jesus’ disciples (Peace of Allah be upon him and his pure mother), not 3rd century like how you cite before? The Anajeel (Gospels) tell us that Jesus lived all his life like any righteous Jew. From his Birthday until him death (According to Christians Theory): 1- After a Jewish mother gave birth to a son, is considered unclean until the baby circumcised (Leviticus 12:1-2). So, Mary was unclean (The mother of God was unclean!!!). So, after the days of her purification according to the Law of Moses were finished she and Josef took the baby to the temple in Jerusalem (Luke 2:22-23) to present him to God according to Law of Moses (Exodus 13:2, 12). 2- Juses circumcised when he was 8 days like any Jewish child (Luke 2:21). Then Mary and Josef offered a sacrifice to God (a pair of doves or two young pigeons) (Luke 2: 24) according to Law of Moses (Leviticus 12: 8 ). 3- Mary and Josef used to go to Jerusalem every year to celebrate the Passover (Luke 2:41), like any ordinary Jews. 4- Once upon a time during the Passover, Mary and Josef lost Jesus and they found him in the temple (Jewish place for worship) asking and listening to the Jewish teachers. (Luke 2:46). 5- Juses used to use Old Testament in his arguments with others (Matthew 12:5) even if with the devil (Luke 4:1-13). 6- Jesus used to teach in the Jewish Temple (Mark 12:35). 7- Jesus paid tax to support the temple (Matthew 17:24-25). Jewish men paid this tax to support the temple; [Exodus 30:11-16]. 8- One of the last advices of Jesus for his disciples to obey the Jewish teachers of the Moses’ law and the Pharisees [Matthew 23: 1-3]. 9- Jesus did not come with a new Law. He did come to abolish the Law of Moses and other prophets but to complete it. [Matthew 5:17]. Then he stated that anyone broke the commandants and teach other will be away of the truth. [Matthew 5:19]. 10- The People used to call Jesus son of David. And all of us know that David was a Jewish king [Matthew 21:9]. 11- According to the Gospel of Matthew Jesus described himself as a king of Jews [Matthew 27:11]. 12- According to the Christians’ Theory Jesus killed on the Cross (crucified), anyways, after his death the Anajeel (Gospels) tell us that Jesus’ Friends wound his body in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury. [John 19:40]. 13- Even if the disciples of Jesus were so worried about some information that Paul taught all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs [Acts 21:21 (New King James Version)]. 14- Then the disciples asked Paul to assure for the Jews who believed that he did not forsake Moses’ law by purifying himself with four persons. He should Shave his head with them and pay the expenses of shaving their heads too. So everyone can understand that Paul was still following the law of Moses [Acts 21:21 (New King James Version)]. 15- Finally Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them [Acts 21:26] 16- Even if the Jews who believed in Jesus followed the Law of Moses and they were zealous for it [Acts 21:20]. In the Quran sometimes it stated the term “People of the Book” or “People of the Script” (Whatever translators translate the term, it means Jews and Christians) while it just refers one of them. For General people they think this term always refers for them both. And I can say, yes that is right most of time. Here are the Quran states the term “People of the People” while it verse refers to Jews only [3]. { يَسْأَلُكَ أَهْلُ ٱلْكِتَابِ أَن تُنَزِّلَ عَلَيْهِمْ كِتَاباً مِّنَ ٱلسَّمَآءِ فَقَدْ سَأَلُواْ مُوسَىٰ أَكْبَرَ مِن ذٰلِكَ فَقَالُوۤاْ أَرِنَا ٱللَّهَ جَهْرَةً فَأَخَذَتْهُمُ ٱلصَّاعِقَةُ بِظُلْمِهِمْ ثُمَّ ٱتَّخَذُواْ ٱلْعِجْلَ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَآءَتْهُمُ ٱلْبَيِّنَاتُ فَعَفَوْنَا عَن ذٰلِكَ وَآتَيْنَا مُوسَىٰ سُلْطَاناً مُّبِيناً } The Translation of the Meanings of the Quran [4] by Arthur J. Arberry “[4]The People of the Book will ask thee to bring down upon them a Book from heaven; and they asked Moses for greater than that, for they said, ’Show us God openly.’ And the thunderbolt took them for their evildoing. Then they took to themselves the Calf, after the clear signs had come to them; yet We pardoned them that, and We bestowed upon Moses a clear authority.” The verse obviously refers to the Jews only. Christians did not ask Moses? Compare that to this Verse from the same Surah of the Quran [4: 171] Here are the Quran states the term “People of the People” while it verse refers to Christian only [4]. { يٰأَهْلَ ٱلْكِتَابِ لاَ تَغْلُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ إِلاَّ ٱلْحَقَّ إِنَّمَا ٱلْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ٱبْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ ٱللَّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَىٰ مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ فَآمِنُواْ بِٱللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ ثَلاَثَةٌ ٱنتَهُواْ خَيْراً لَّكُمْ إِنَّمَا ٱللَّهُ إِلَـٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ لَّهُ مَا فِي ٱلسَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي ٱلأَرْضِ وَكَفَىٰ بِٱللَّهِ وَكِيلاً } The Translation of the Meanings of the Quran [4] by Arthur J. Arberry {[4]People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, ’Three.’ Refrain; better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Him -- That He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth; God suffices for a guardian.} The verse obviously refers to the Jews only. Jews do not say God is three or Jesus is a son of God? What is the main point of all of that? The main point that For us Muslims, Christians are Jews or another class of Jews. Because they are originally came from Jews roots. All the evidences refer to that. So when they Quran talks about that people who changed the words from its place, or corruption or perversion the verses and refers to Jews, it means also Christians. Christians are just Jews take another way. The earliest Christians followed the Law of Moses, they entered the temple. Jesus asked them to follow the teachers for Moses in their teaching but do not act like that. All of that has been explained before. That is why Quran used the term “People of the Book” referring to once for Jews and Once for Christians. It is not my own desire to say that, Quran supported my idea. Others too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Mes ... ristianity The Quran was so accurate saying Jews corrupted the Bible (Old and New Testaments) because you are just grandson’s sons of Jews. By looking at the term Christians we would understand more about this issue. For Jews there is a religion called “Judaism” and a messenger called Moses (Mercy and Peace of Allah be upon him). For Muslims there is a religion called “Islam” and a prophet called “Mohamed” (Peace and Mercy of Allah be upon him”. But for Christians there just a messenger called “Jesus Christ” or "Jesus the anointed" (Mercy and peace of Allah be upon him) and that is why they Christians. They have no real religion and that is right. They originally should follow the Law of Moses [Matthew 5: 17-19], [Matthew 23: 1-3]. [Acts 21:19-26]. And finally that is how Muslims Scientists see the Christians like just a part groups of Jews. Quran [5] { لَقَدْ كَفَرَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوۤاْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ هُوَ ٱلْمَسِيحُ ٱبْنُ مَرْيَمَ وَقَالَ ٱلْمَسِيحُ يَابَنِيۤ إِسْرَائِيلَ ٱعْبُدُواْ ٱللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ إِنَّهُ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيهِ ٱلْجَنَّةَ وَمَأْوَاهُ ٱلنَّارُ وَمَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ أَنصَارٍ } Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Arthur J. Arberry {[5]They are unbelievers who say, ’God is the Messiah, Mary’s son.’ For the Messiah said, ’Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Verily whoso associates with God anything, God shall prohibit him entrance to Paradise, and his refuge shall be the Fire; and wrongdoers shall have no helpers.’} Here are the explanations of the Quran [5] by Al- Tabari وهذا خبر من الله تعالـى ذكره عن بعض ما فَتَن به الإسرائيـلـيـين الذين أخبر عنهم أنهم حسبوا أن لا تكون فتنة. يقول تعالـى ذكره: فكان مـما ابتلـيتهم واختبرتهم به فنقضوا فـيه ميثاقـي وغيروا عهدي الذي كنت أخذته علـيهم، بأن لا يعبدوا سواي ولا يتـخذوا ربـاً غيري، وأن يوحدونـي، وينتهوا إلـى طاعتـي عبدي عيسى ابن مريـم، فإنـي خـلقته وأجريت علـى يده نـحو الذي أجريت علـى يد كثـير من رسلـي، فقالوا كفراً منهم: هو الله Al-Tabari here stated that the Israeli people (Children of Israel) said in a disbelief way that Jesus is God. And of course Jews themselves did not say that, but Christians did. Let us finally end this search with the real problem of the Quran, [5] { مِنْ أَجْلِ ذٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِيۤ إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَن قَتَلَ نَفْساً بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي ٱلأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِيعاً وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعاً وَلَقَدْ جَآءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِٱلّبَيِّنَٰتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيراً مِّنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذٰلِكَ فِي ٱلأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ } Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Arthur J. Arberry {[5]Therefore We prescribed for the Children of Israel that whoso slays a soul not to retaliate for a soul slain, nor for corruption done in the land, shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether; and whoso gives life to a soul, shall be as if he ha given life to mankind altogether. Our Messengers have already come to them with the clear signs; then many of them thereafter commit excesses in the earth.} Genesis 4:10 (New International Version) {10 The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."} The verse of the Quran is a general prescription for all murders, where as the Bible verse is God speaking specifically to Cain for the murder of his brother Abel. The Bible verse says nothing about Abel’s murder being as bad as if he killed everyone on earth, nor does it say anything about one who preserves life. The Quran takes the story of Cain and Abel and uses it to make a general prescription, where as the biblical story really only speaks to that specific situation. So, As you see there is a huge difference between both verses Oral Torah and the Quran. And as we mentioned this subject, let me put for you a comment by a Converted Jewish Journalist to Islam “Muhammad Asad” in his Translations for the meanings of the Quran[5] ( above. The moral of this particular Biblical story -a moral which the followers of the Bible have been "concealing from themselves" - is summarized in verse 32. AL-MA’ IDAH SURAH with all evidence of the truth: yet, behold, notwithstanding all this, many of them go on committing all manner of excesses on earth.
Now about Mishnah Sanhedrin [85] Mishnah, Sanhedrin 4: 5 [פה] משנה מסכת סנהדרין פרק ד משנה ה לפיכך נברא אדם יחידי ללמדך שכל המאבד נפש אחד מעלה עליו הכתוב כאילו איבד עולם מלא וכל המקיים נפש אחת מעלה עליו הכתוב כאילו קיים עולם מלא ומפני שלום הבריות שלא יאמר אדם לחבירו אבא גדול מאביך . . . ולהגיד גדולתו של הקדוש ברוך הוא שאדם טובע כמה מטבעות בחותם אחד וכולן דומין זה לזה ומלך מלכי המלכים הקדוש ברוך הוא טבע כל אדם בחותמו של אדם הראשון ואין אחד מהן דומה לחבירו. And this the translation for who may it concern in English [85] Mishnah, Sanhedrin 4: 5 For this reason, man [i.e. the first human being] was created alone to teach that whoever destroys a single life is as though he had destroyed an entire universe, and whoever saves a single life is as if he had saved an entire universe. Furthermore [the first man was created alone] for the sake of peace among men, so that no one could say to another, “My ancestor was greater than yours” . . . [Yet another reason] was to proclaim the greatness of the Holy One, blessed be He, for when a human being strikes many coins from one mould, they all resemble one another, but the supreme King of kings, the Holy One, blessed be He, fashioned every man in the stamp of the first man, and yet not one of them resembles his fellow. The Scientific faithful behaviour in arguments allow to put the original context in its original language for who those to see if you translation is right or wrong. Now check your translation to the main context in Hebrew and see if it is close enough or not. I will lead the judge for the people who can translate it and compare between our translations. Ask as anyone knows Hebrew which translation is more accurate. Second, As this [85] Mishnah, Sanhedrin 4: 5 (Oral Torah) which you Christians did not add it to your books, Descirbes [Genesis 4:10] And as we explained before that there differences between two verses (Written Torah and Quran). So let us see the difference here between the (Oral Torah) according to Jews theory and The Quran. The context of Mishnah, Sanhedrin talked about the reason of the creation (For this reason, man [i.e. the first human being] was created alone to teach that whoever destroys a single life is as though he had destroyed an entire universe]. Mishnah, Sanhedrin did not mentioned that the man is ordered. Quran stated that the man is ordered by that { مِنْ أَجْلِ ذٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِيۤ إِسْرَائِيلَ}. In all the Quran when it the term “Katabna” “كَتَبْنَا” always referred to something has been ordered. Quran stated this term three times. Check that in Quran [4] { وَلَوْ أَنَّا كَتَبْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ أَنِ ٱقْتُلُوۤاْ أَنْفُسَكُمْ أَوِ ٱخْرُجُواْ مِن دِيَارِكُمْ مَّا فَعَلُوهُ إِلاَّ قَلِيلٌ مِّنْهُمْ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ فَعَلُواْ مَا يُوعَظُونَ بِهِ لَكَانَ خَيْراً لَّهُمْ وَأَشَدَّ تَثْبِيتاً } Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Arthur J. Arberry {[4]But had We prescribed for them, saying, ’Slay yourselves’ or ’Leave your habitations,’ they would not have done it, save a few of them; yet if they had done as they were admonished it would have been better for them, and stronger confirming them,} Prescribed here means “Orders” Go to www.dictionary.com to check it yourself. Quran [21] { وَلَقَدْ كَتَبْنَا فِي ٱلزَّبُورِ مِن بَعْدِ ٱلذِّكْرِ أَنَّ ٱلأَرْضَ يَرِثُهَا عِبَادِيَ ٱلصَّالِحُونَ } Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Arthur J. Arberry “[21]For We have written in the Psalms, after the Remembrance, ’The earth shall be the inheritance of My righteous servants.’” Mishnah, Sanhedrin did not give order or said that is a law of God. It is just said man created to teach. Man created to get married too. But many do not do. Man created to eat beef but many just eat vegetables so will God enter them to the hell because of that? [Quran 5:15] { يَا أَهْلَ ٱلْكِتَابِ قَدْ جَآءَكُمْ رَسُولُنَا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُمْ كَثِيراً مِّمَّا كُنْتُمْ تُخْفُونَ مِنَ ٱلْكِتَابِ وَيَعْفُواْ عَن كَثِيرٍ قَدْ جَآءَكُمْ مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ نُورٌ وَكِتَابٌ مُّبِينٌ } Translation of the Meanings of the Quran by Arthur J. Arberry {[5]People of the Book, now there has come to you Our Messenger, making clear to you many things you have been concealing of the Book, and effacing many things. There has come to you from God a light, and a Book Manifest} Is not that what Muhammad Asad the converted Jewish Journalist into Islam said in its comment for verse [5]. SO, the Quran come to assure that is an order in their book but they did not take it like an order. Finally depending on Mishnah, Sanhedrin is a hudge problem for the New Testmant. As you see there is not problem with the Quran. Mark and Matthew indicate that the trial before the Sanhedrin occurred at night and a capital trial at night was illegal. Mishnah Sanhedrin 4.1 confirms the illegality of a capital trial at night, assuming that the law stated in the Mishnah existed in 30 C.E. Mark indicates that the charge against Jesus was blasphemy: "You have heard the blasphemy (Mark 14:64)." Under Mishnah Tractate 7.5, blasphemy consists only of uttering the name of God, so there is reason to question whether in fact that was the charge against Jesus. If it is assumed to be the charge, however, Mishhah Tractate 7.4 makes clear that execution by stoning was an available option for such a crime. For more about this subject go there, http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/project ... edrin.html So, as you see the Mishnah Sanhedrin is a problem for the Bible. One of them should be right Mishnah Sanhedrin or the New Testament. Choose. And that is why a Jewish Professor stated in BBC News, it is impossible that Jesus put on the Cross for death because according to Moses law he should be stoned plus what is in Mishnah , read that [Deuteronomy 13:1-6], [ Deuteronomy 17, 2-7]. Let me end my article with this verse about the converted people although Allah stated the term “People of the Book” Quran 3:199 { وَإِنَّ مِنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْكِتَابِ لَمَن يُؤْمِنُ بِٱللَّهِ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِمْ خَاشِعِينَ للَّهِ لاَ يَشْتَرُونَ بِآيَاتِ ٱللَّهِ ثَمَناً قَلِيلاً أُوْلۤـٰئِكَ لَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ سَرِيعُ ٱلْحِسَابِ } {[3]And some there are of the People of the Book who believe in God, and what has been sent down unto you, and what has been sent down unto them, men humble to God, not selling the signs of God for a small price; those -- their wage is with their Lord; God is swift at the reckoning.} |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame