Peace all,


ILJ/Y said>Quote:
Such as???

For starters, you can discount the laws of the Talmud, Jesus certainly didn't separate his conduct between Jews and gentiles.

Specifics please.Since you feel you have all the answers.Please enlighten us as to what specifically HE did that was contrary to Jewish law/Torah or Talmud?

ILJ/Y said>Quote:
First of all, Jesus dealt with alot of disbelief, but no where did he command anyone to murder another!It just didn't happen.Frankly anyone who tried to trick HIM with questions, etc...ended up loosing every time.Because HE was so knowledgable of HIS Sciprtures.No one could refute HIM.So with the words of HIS mouth HE dealt with them, in a peaceful, helping way, rather than ordering their heads to be cut off!


HG said>

This wasn't about losing debates, this was about drowning out the message of God with slander, not questions.

There again we don't see Jesus ever ordering murder! The slander was probably along the lines of showing turth from true Scripture to the ridiculous copied and changed stories of the Quran!

ILJ/Y said>Quote:
You base your claims on Islamic beliefs, some from the Qu'ran, which do not clearly state HE wasn't crucified, to my knowledge.


HG said>

And (on account of) their saying, "We killed the Messiah, ‘Isa son of Maryam, Messenger of Allah." They did not kill him and they did not crucify him but it was made to seem so to them. Those who argue about him are in doubt about it. They have no real knowledge of it, just conjecture. But they certainly did not kill him. Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Almighty, All-Wise. (Qur'an Surat an-Nisa': 157-158)

I'll have to check and see why I said not to my knowledge.I believe I've had this discussion before, and I must have been mistaken, because I wasthinking it wasn't clear if it said HE was killed.I'll try to find out why I said that.

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The fact that HIS disciples died as martyrs testifing HE was crucified, dead buried, and ressurected, says plenty towards athenticity.

No it doesn't. You THINK this happened because you find it in the Bible, and the Bible is not an authentic document.

I don't recall Jesus' disciples burning other copies immediatley after HIS ressurection, unlike Uthman etc...The Bible is far more authenticated than the Quran.In fact is more authenticated than any ancient writings.Of course we know the writiers of the Quran, had alot of material to borrow from as well.None of which are fullfillment of the former.Unlike Jesus' fulfilling previous Scriptures.

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For the sake of argument we could say it may be reasonable to assume a couple would have lied about such a thing, but not to the point of death, and not the numbers that died saying what they witnessed.Not many will die knowing they are dying based on a lie.

Yes, a couple would have lied, but more importantly, a couple would have died having not intentionally wanted to corrupt Jesus' message. It DID appear to them that Jesus (pbuh) had died, but if they had followed Christ's teachings, this would not have meant anything relevant from a theological standpoint because Jesus himself never told them that his ascension had a theological significance. For all the early Christians knew, Jesus DID appear to have died, but even if they thought this, it wouldn't have changed what he said nor should they have been inclined to change his words.

They knew when someone was dead, and when someone was not.It simply goes against your false belief that Muhammad was a true prophet, so keep denying HIM crucified, dead, and buried, and ressurected on the third day as HE spoke, HE would, and the previous Scriptures as well.
We'll continue to tell HIS truth to the world.

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Frankly it's not me spewing hate, that is what is taught to these people.I know it from first hand accounts of my friends and brothers that were raised in Bethlehem, and later Jericho, and were at one time very violent in thought word and deeds towards Jews.You say they shouldn't do that etc...but I say again where is the Islamic voice condemning such things?

I'll give you a clue, the Islamic voice condemning that thing won't be on cnn or fox news. Before you get any information about that entire region, especially Islam, it's siphoned very thoroughly.

Yeah right our liberal media woudn't play that.Who are you trying to fool man?CNN and CBS, ABC, all those would gladly do it.But of course in the U.S.A. we have freedom of the press etc...and Islamic countries by and large do not, so who really spins the truth?

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It's being taught in the Mosques, and everywhere, and in everything nearly, in one way or another.As well as the fact that the Qu'ran, says, 'Take not Jews and Christians as your friends, they are friends to themselves' etc

O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

History speaks for itself. What are you actually suggesting that Jews and Christians have ever crawled over each other to help Muslims more than Muslims have to other Muslims? Look at this forum as a clue, it's a fountain of lies and sarcasm.

No where did I was the topic about Jews and Christians helping Muslims more than Muslims.Where did that come from?Talk about spin!Also Muslims have killed each other more than anyone else has killed them!!!
The only lies I have seen have come from Muslims.There's no need to try and play the victim with me.I have seen how on other sites I participate, Muslims hacked our site, Muslims, repeatedly attempted to crash the server on our site!!!

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Muhammad was born, and since Muhammad was told to check those Scriptures which were already existant, they weren't corrupt at that point, and certainly couldn't have been corrupted after Islam, because you couldn't get people to change what they already had in writing to accept something totally contradictory, and much taken from unaccepted books etc...So I agree the benchmark (Islam) is warped and Muslims reject what Jesus really taught.

No, neither the Bible nor the OT were corrupted AFTER Islam.

Ah so, then we can conclude that when Muhammad says he was told to check these previous Scripures, they were true and correct, and his cannot hold up against them.When are you alledging they were "corrupted?"


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No but pushed and enforced in the Holy of Holies to Muslims.

Oh yeah? "By Muslims"? What are you even talking about? The minute you start talking about things being done "by Muslims" you immediately lose credibility. "I saw some CHRISTIANS doing so and so, yeah they WOULD do that". Prejudice.

Well let's see: Saudia Arabia/Mecca is the Holy city for Muslims.It is certainly not an unfair assessment that when someone is found out to be Christian in S.A. and they are attacked, etc...it sure isn't done by other Christians in S.A., and since must are Muslims there that have heads anyway, we conclude they are Muslims!!I hear from people who left S.A. and have seen people murdered for converting so you can deny whatever you wish, but it happens frequenty!

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No but when they raid houses or someone tells them somoeone has converted to Christianity, then they are beaten tortured, and beheaded in public, it still shows extreme intolerance, and compulsion in religion!So you think, a Christian in Saudia Arabia, should stay locked away with HIS faith, when the persons Lord, said to tell the nations of HIM?Yet Muslims expect Mosques to be put up where ever they are, but not return favor huh?

Well if you think Saudi has 1984 religious police, you really have no idea what's going on. Nobody CARES what religion you are, unless YOU want to make a big deal of it. Obviously if you want to preach lies about the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Jesus, then you're going to be asked to desist. Nobody is going to go busting into your house for praying to a man, that's your own choice.

Wow I see you are THE official spokeman for everything Islamic huh?Have you been to Saudia? Can someone openly wear a cross, without fear?

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Yes I am sure a Muslim could build a Christian church, or a Jewish synagogue there!I am also sure no harm would come to one who did such!!!


H_G said>

No, a Muslim can't build any house of worship besides a Mosque on Muslim-owned land.

Hmmm a contradiction my friend.Let's see what you said before

True, it is not lawful to build a place of worship besides a Mosque on Muslim land unless it is purchased by a non-Muslim and then they can do what they want with it.

Which is it?


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Well, if you were a Muslim before, and someone sees a Bible on you or in your home etc...and reports you to the authorities, then you are considered an infidel, and bye bye head Why shouldn't someone be allowed to tell their beliefs, especially when Muslims tell their beliefs in other countries?

Right, they tell the "religious authorities" and they come to kill you, a SWAT team busts through the glass to spy on you. Unless you're opening up a Bible shop and spreading slander, nobody cares. Also, Muslims hold absolute Truth, so that's why they prosthelitize. It's not really an "everyone is right" deal, it's a "there is a single Truth, but choose what you will"

Only Muslims believe they hold absolute truth.So you agree if you open a Bible shop you should be killed?!I agree we both can't be right, and certainly one searches in vain to find truth of the Quran in the our Scriptures.Old or New, unless pointing to the lies of Islam.

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I am pretty confident it was widley known, they shot her for adultery! I am against adultery, but I don't think being shot in the head at point blank range fits the crime.Not today anyway!Especially if the ones doing the shooting, are murderers, and guilty of other crimes, which makes them a hypocrite.

If she committed adultery, she AND HER ADULTERER would have been stoned. Second of all, if the shooter was a murder, yes he should have been punished, though I don't know how you determined what he'd done.[/.quote] There agin goes that freedom of the press/speech etc...we wouldn't know what he or any of those had done, but they willingly show her being shot.Which was murder, so the tape convicts him!

For private conversion? Not a Shariah law.

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No that doesn't sound forced to me!Anybody else?


It's not.

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Nor doesn't it invalidate them either.It certainly gives more credibilty the closer to the events, rather than coming after another and claiming this is what those really meant, when there are existant texts that show otherwise!

Not even remotely. The Qur'an isn't a historical document like the Bible, the Qur'an is divine revelation, authentically preserved from the revelations given to Muhammad (pbuh). The Bible is neither authentic, nor traced back to Jesus, nor its manuscript to when it was first written even. I don't even see how you can compare the two. The Bible could have been written a month after Jesus (pbuh) ascended, and if it was preserved the same way it's found to have been preserved today, it STILL would have no bearing on belief.

Let's see some say it was 19 yrs. after Muhammad's death, some say 35 yrs. etc...yet in that short span, legends and false truths had developed that required other versions to be burned, in sich a short time? No it would have no bearing on thos that no not HIS voice, but plenty on those who do.Since you try to toss the truth aside, why try to argue Muhammad is found in them?Other than false prophet verses?

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The apostle Peter said there would be scoffers who would deny these things/sound doctrine etc...


You believe that which you wish to.

Right, well it's true, many DO deny the Truth. Now imagine the Truth was originally written in a text, and someone appended it with, "and yet people will deny these things". The body of the text was then changed to encompass falsity, but the appendage remained. Now people believe that anyone who says differently is denying the Truth, when tragically, they've been trapped into disbelief by an inauthentic text.

Exactly what Muhammed attempted to do.And let's imagine a socitey that thousands of yrs. later still murders those who don't follow thier alleged truth!

Jesus is the truth the way and the life as HE said.

Have a blessed day
ILJ/Y