Peace humble guest
humble_guest wrote:
and in order to know that it is not factual and just fiction is to read the entire bible from end to end and not depend upon sites that will "sway" your brain into thinking one thing or the other.
I agree there’s a lot of propaganda out there. But here’s the key. Before you even open up a Scripture to read it, you have to know where it came from, otherwise you are pitting the words of God against the words of men and then choosing which you like best.
Then why is it that you think you know exactly where the Koran came from? How do you know, by all of the so-called evidence you gave to me makes you believe that it's true? Or is it because this was already instilled into you when you were a young child and didn't know any better? Was it because you are scared to death that someone other than allah will kill you if you should leave because you know it's not true. Exactly how do you know which verses in the bible are true to support your quran when you think that most of the bible is corrupt to begin with?
The difference between Christianity and other religions is because we have a close and personal relationship with our God almighty. We know what we have to do [whether or not we choose to listen] and how to go about our lives. The proof is in what our heavenly father
shows to us through our daily relationship with Him. Of course the Bible helps us to undestand what is expected of us as good christians, but it is He who provides us with our daily needs. It's more spiritual than techinical and that's something alot of people of the flesh cannot understand. It's like I'm talking English to you when you can onlly understand French.
humble_guest wrote:
You can just line up ALL the supposed scriptures of the world and then choose your favorite. Scripture has to have signs to show that it is the word of God, it must come from the mouth of the messenger, it can’t be broken in its transmission.
I'm sorry but you can't accuse me of doing such things. I would think Islam is the culprit for doing that. I believe the entire bible to be true. I believe in Jesus Christ as my saviour. Jesus is and will always be the final messenger for me and He's proved it to me and I'm sure alot of other followers many times over and over again. I don't need someone like Muhammed or Joseph Smith to tell me other wise because they are dellusional.
humble_guest wrote:
Even before you get to theological content, what prophecies does it contain? What internal miracles and eloquence?
Well what prophecies are you looking for and what determines miracles and eloquence. I used to know a homeless man who was uneducated and never went to school. He was one of the smartess people I've ever known. Does that constitute him for candidacy for prophethood?
humble_guest wrote:
You also have to take into consideration if he was really unlettered to begin with A merchant is unlettered????? What about the stories about him buying the scriptures from the jews back in his time? Why did he need to "buy" scriptures when the angel gabriel was supposed to give him the true scripture of God?
Be careful that you rely only on true historical accounts and not just ones written to misguide you. If you are sincere, read this:
http://www.ymofmd.com/books/prophethood ... _intro.htm
Forget it. I already read the hadiths and provided them to you. If you don't want to accept the truth sincerly that your prophet was a hoax, then that's on you, not me.
humble_guest wrote:
Also, the thing about the QUr’an is that it not only could not have been written by an unlettered man, it’s eloquence surpasses even the most eloquent men. It’s miraculous even if you DON’T believe that the Prophet (pbuh) was unlettered. But don’t just reduce it to its language, think of its internalized miracles.
Well if you have other works in your hand that are just as "eloquent" as you put it, it's really not hard to plagarize. I think I got an F in school for plagerizing something I didn't copy. I just wanted to use the format to make it seem as if I really knew what I was talking about. I got an F anyway.
humble_guest wrote:
No. 65 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Once the Prophet wrote a letter or had an idea of writing a letter. The Prophet was told that they (rulers) would not read letters unless they were sealed. So the Prophet got a silver ring made with "Muhammad Allah's Apostle" engraved on it. As if I were just observing its white glitter in the hand of the Prophet
No. 4214 - Narrated 'Aisha:
When the last Verses of Surat-al-Baqara were revealed, the Prophet read them in the Mosque and prohibited the trade of alcoholic liquors. "If the debtor is in difficulty, grant him time till it is easy for him to repay.." (2.280)
Narrated 'Aisha: When the last Verses of Surat-al-Baqara were revealed, Allah's Apostle stood up and recited them before us and then prohibited the trade of alcoholic liquors.
So much for the unlettered prophet.
The Prophet always had his companions draft letters and treaties for him. The nature of the Arabic language is very broad with terms like “write” and “read”. For example, the first hadith you presented could just as easily mean “dictated” and when you consider the CONTEXT of the Prophet’s (pbuh) life, that becomes more evident. Because think about what you’re saying, the claim that he was unlettered isn’t new, it was stated during his lifetime. You think he would be openly writing things if according to you he was only purporting to be unlettered?
So then that would question the validity of the entier koran and the hadiths. You mean the ones that were around him were lying? dictated? I don't think so. He could write, but played that he couldn't because he wanted to portray that islam is the correct religion when it is not. The only miracle islam has produced is how it has brainwashed so many people into thinking that it's the final religion above all.
humble_guest wrote:
And seriously, in the second example “read” means “recited”. Not only means, it is the same word. If hundreds had memorized the Qur’an during the time of the Prophet, don’t you think the Prophet himself would be foremost among them? You think he would need it written down to read it? Think about that.
Peole can memorize anything and pass it onto someone else and then make a flaw somewhere in the pattern. And where is the proof that so many people memorized the quran. I would like to ask my cousin if he's already memorized the quran. Actually you know what? when I go back to work next week I'm going to ask all of those women that converted how many years ago if they memorized the quran and then I'll come back to you with my answer. I'll even ask some of the arab muslim men at my job as well. The fact still remains that he could read and write.
humble_guest wrote:
Sura 2 41
YUSUFALI: And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.
“The point to be noted here is that from the very beginning of mankind on earth, Allah has been sending His prophets to guide humanity along the Right Path. Whenever the people deviated from Divine Guidance, prophets came to correct them and lead them back to the Path of Allah. Thus after the time of Moses, when the Children of Israel distorted the Divine Message, many prophets came to them, of whom the most important was Jesus the Messiah.
Why would mohameed need to buy scriptures from people anyway if he got the direct revelation from god through the angel? That doesn't make sense.
humble_guest wrote:
Oh..ok
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: I heard the Prophet saying. "Evil omen is in three things: The horse, the woman and the house." Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 110
So the religion that states that women are considered "equal" are also considered "evil omen" too? LOL why can't it be found in men too since this is supposed to be a religion of equality? LOL Sorry...couldn't help it.. LOL . Oh I forgot to list the part that says that women are less intelligent than men as well. Are you sure a real prophet would say such things? I think Dr. Rice would disagree with such statements.
Bro, I hope you know that not all hadiths are of the same authenticity! There were a lot of disbelievers who purposely attributed sayings to the Prophet to ridicule him and divert the faiths of believers. They like yourself thought this amusing. So whenever you present a hadith, you also have to present it’s authenticity rating. This is based on whether it has a solid and large transmission of reliable persons going all the way back to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). THEN you have to check the biographies of each person to make sure they are reliable and don’t have a history of malice against Islam or people in general or even senility. THEN you have to note whether there are ever any broken links in the chain. Then you have to note how many chains have transmitted the same hadith. The science of hadith is too deep to go into, but I think the reason you find many hadiths amusing is exactly because many ARE frivolous and slanderous plagiarisms by the enemies of Islam. Do you understand this or should I expand more on the topic?
I understand but I don't think you understand. The same exact logic you're trying to make other people believe is not the logic you want to use for yourself. If these so called Hadiths are not true, how do you really know which ones are true? If the so called hadiths are written by the ones that were closely around mohammed and they were supposedly the ones that wrote the quran for him since he couldn't read or write [which is not true], then how can you even accept the validity of the koran to begin with? Plagerism is found in the koran from the arabian folk tales and from the acrophyl testimonies of baby jesus speaking from birth ect.
humble_guest wrote:
Verily in cattle, there is lesson for you. We give you to drink of what is inside their bellies coming from a conjunction between the contents of the intestine and blood, a milk, pure and pleasant for those who drink it.(16:66)
“The constituents of milk are secreted by the mammary glands. These are nourished, as it were, by the product of food digestion brought to them via the bloodstream. Blood therefore is the collecter and conductor of what has been extracted from food, and it brings nutrition to the mammary glands, the producers of milk, as it does to any organ.
It was totally unknown at the time of the Prophet and has been understood only in recent times.“
http://www.jalyat.net/productofmilk.htm
ANY layperson could tell that milk came from the breast. So what? There is no miracle in that.
humble_guest wrote:
Science has already shown that there is no such barrier. Actually you don't even need science for this. Just go to the rivers and see for yourself.
I don’t know how much you know about marine biology, but have you ever research the salinity/pH of different but adjacent bodies of water? For example, the Meditarranean Sea connects to the Atlantic, and yet they have two entirely different statistical water contents which never mix. You can quite literally take your meter and go through a few meters across where the Med. And the Atlantic meat and it will change back and forth. However, each body of water retains its molality and other stats. Want some more info on that?
http://www.jalyat.net/sea.htm
http://www.jalyat.net/river.htm
PH has nothing to do with a barrier. PH has to do with the basic of acidic nature of fluid such as water. water can either be an acid or a base. Oil can be considered basic and water can be considered basic but they cannot mix. Acid is acidic and water can be acidic and they can still mix together. Check the Atlantic ocean next to the meditteranean sea water by the gibralter sil. There are no barriers, in fact there are mixtures of both salt water and fresh water by certain percentages. I think in Norway is it? The sweet water mixes with the ocean as well.
humble_guest wrote:
It's funny how most people can't even memorize a sentence much along an entire book. I wonder why this was done? A lie on top of a lie on top of another lie starts to make sense and become truth? I don't think so.
Don’t allow your heart to be thick with contempt and disbelief bro, to this day Muslims memorize the entire Qur’an.
The point of the matter is that it's useless to even memorize a book of lies. That's my point. It doesn't matter to me if someone wants to memorize something. What's the point when the thing you're memorizing isn't even going to save you when the time comes? The corruption is the koran itself so the corruption has already been memorized.
humble_guest wrote:
If you want me to question and look at gob, why not look at the epistil of Barnabas? Why is it that it's so much different from the gob? And also did you read up on the authenticity of this work? Why is it that it seems to quote some of the people from the Middle ages and have alot of knowledge about the middle ages and not the times they are supposed to be talking about [the time of Jesus]?
Bushmaster has decided [for now] to check the book I’ve suggested at the beginning of this thread out. I think you should do the same. You can read the 50 some pages on the GoB and epistle and tell me what you think.
I already have, have you? The point is that they both contradict each other. Also gob contradicts the koran. I think you should check out the validity of the gob before you go on telling others to read books that are useless for the debate at hand. You also didn't regard those questions I asked you about Joseph using the name "barnabas" but that's ok.
humble_guest wrote:
However, there is such a thing as the spiritual realm which most have not come in contact with and that's the spirit of God. Until you really get to know Him, you will never understand His true word. That's the only answer I can honestly give you.
That’s true, but God demands the spiritual as well as the intellectual, otherwise you are just a blind believer. Why do you think so many religions ask their believers to “shut out the mind”?
Most religions ask this because they know it's better "brainwashing" Love is a spiritual thing, it's not intellectual, it's purely spiritual and that's what our God is all about. Pure love.
humble_guest wrote:
because they don’t have authentic revelation to back their meditative religions. They can’t reasonably argue that their Scriptures are divine revelation, so they say that you must reach nirvana and then you will be convinced. Interesting that one should first live by Scripture in order to test whether it is authentic…doesn’t seem that the believer has done his part to ensure that he indeed is living by the word of God.
Well so far, to me, Islam is losing the test of 'proof' as well. I don't need proof from islam because I've already found it in Jesus Christ.
I can't find the part where God said to believe and trust in Him but don't search for Him [physical being]...hmm...can't remember... but people like mohammed and islam fly in the face of God all the time because you cannot accept that someone loved you so much that He would give up His only begotten Son for you life of sin.
humble_guest wrote:
I can't explain the relationship with God I have to you because you may not believe me or you may laugh at me and think that I'm just a brainwashed kid. I can't tell you about the miracles He's done for me and my family because you [or maybe someone else] may say, well it's not Him who had the miracles done but you yourself.
God is Truth. Undoubtedly there are elements of Truth in all religions. I’m sure at the peak of your faithfulness you’ve contemplated the Divine Unity of God and that’s God has blessed you in your life. But God does not withhold his blessings from people in this world based on their beliefs and acts in this world. There are rich and prosperous and happy atheists after all…this world is not yet judged.
I wasn't talking about riches actually because I'm not rich and neither is my family. My point was that we were in a situation with no way out and all was about to be lost, but through prayer we made it through [don't know how to explain that]. I know there are alot of rich muslims too [although not that many] and I know they will be judged accordingly as well.
humble_guest wrote:
I questioned whether or not Jesus was really the Son of God and things like that.
Well, if you’ve firmly decided you never want to be ^^^ there, then you won’t be able to handle the book. But I would call this blind faith. Truth stands clearly above falsehood and you should have no reservations to read anything if you claim to have the Truth. But at least you’ve openly made your decision after I had made the suggestion to you. This is what happens most of the time, people love habitudes more than they love the Truth. They seek comfort in the familiar rather than in the Truth and are averse to change. Anyone who is not willing to change for God does not truly believe in Him.
Like I told you before, been there, done that, constantly going through it everyday with your muslim brothers on my back. However I already know the truth. Jesus also warned about those who are in sheep's clothing. I personally am not interested. I'm learning everyday about islam and how its effect on the people are devastating. How much of a brain washing cult it is and how mohammed used "religion" to get his way. He is one of the most evil people I've ever read about in history.
I and my other brothers and sisters are here to reveal the REAL TRUTH to you if only you open your eyes and ask God with a sincere heart as to what you want to do with your life. A leader like mohammed is not someone I would ever want to follow to be in contact with god. Jesus is definately the one I would follow forever to be with my Father in heaven. If you say that Jesus will come back, break the cross and throw a pig like me into hell because I didn't follow the laviscious life of mohammed, then so be it. That's how I'll have it because I know that MY FATHER, the TRUE GOD will never leave me or any who believe in His words and testimonies:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)
May God Bless you and may you find eternal peace, my friend.