humble_guest wrote: One question how can someone who is unable to read and write validate and authenticate what has been written?
It's recited back to him. In fact this was done every year in Ramadan, and twice in the year of his death. It doesn't take a detective to figure out that either 1) he read it 2) it was recited. Haha, but you chose 1) so you can post the pic.
Don't you mean when the spirit Jibreel checked it with Mohammed for recital purposes once a year and twice in the year of his death?
At what point did Mohammed authenticate and validate the koran according to Zaid ibn thabit?, at what point did he authenticate and validate the koran according to Aobi bin ka'ab?, at what point did he authenticate and validate the koran according to Abu Bakr two years after his death? (633-34), at what point did he authenticate and validate the koran collected by the third caliph Uttman (done between 644-656)? I hope you are aware by now your sunnah speaks of several contradictory incidents that led to the creation of this koran, first it was Abu Bakr supposedly done two years after Mohammed's death, which others suspect was a lie to get the creation of the koran as close to Mohammed as possible, then it was Uthmann who collected it (25 yrs after mohammed's death), or maybe it was Ali shia saint and fourth caliph who collected it, who do we believe?
At what point did Mohammed authenticate and validate the koran according to the above mentioned individuals?
Yeah, I'm excited to hear your views on Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22.
The mere fact that you are willing to consider an alternative explanation that contradicts your own scriptures but as far as it opposes the opposition speaks volumes about you.
What part of "Jesus (pbuh) never saw or authenticated today's Bible" is illogical or conjectured to you?
When did Mohammed authenticate or saw Yusuf Ali's abrogated translation of the koran? which I suspect is what you use
Abram was a polytheist pagan of Ur before God came to Him and said "Walk before me and be blameless"
He was then renamed Abraham.
Abraham worshipped and rationalized the existence of God even before God spoke to him.
Scriptural proof pls
Sure, but was there a mechanism of memorization and transcription?
I see there must be a mechanism of memorisation lets put aside that the message could certainly be demon inspired and it contradicts all previous revelations but this time the onus of proof that it is divine is in the mechanism of memorisation?
Jesus takling as a baby and commanding date-palms to bring forth water and fruit is FLAKY AND STUPID.
Only because it differs from the Bible's account, which doesn't even trace back to Jesus.
How does this arabic fable trace back to the real Jesus?
I would, by a landslide vote, accept what is said in the Gospels then the hogwash in your Quran.
So that's the choice you've made, and we're all accountable for our choices.
You are ofcourse implying we are accountable to the allah in your koran? for our crime of hanging pictures of dogs in our home? or pointing to mecca when urinating?
The Zoroastrians would memorize their Avesta because it was written with a certain number of syllables per line. That doesn't mean the Avesta is Truth from God.
The pagan Hindus also memorize and preserve their Vedas.
The Rig Veda is certainly the same scripture today as it was before the Aryans moved to India!!!
Surprisingly though, it isn't. These scriptures can't be traced back to their Prophets, they were compiled either years after the Prophet's death or had several "religious men" add their "wisdom" to it.
There's no point in memorizing and preserving a text AFTER the corruption had a chance to occur after the death of the Prophet.
Pls bear in mind your audience do not believe for one second your 'prophet' is anything but a prophet, and do read what I highlighted in bold.
And you should not accept somethibng just bacuse it's well preserved and memorized well.
True. But one shouldn't accept anything as "the word of God" if it's not preserved and memorized since the time of the Prophet.
Circular logic
Oh yeah? You researched your faith, and without basing anything on the NT, you rationalized that a god and man formed a hypostatic union? If you are truthful, show me a point by point proof of Christian theology without quoting the NT.
Watch a child growing up without any outside influence you will notice the child is very selfish especially when it comes to sharing sweets, did anybody teach this child such behaviour? we sin because we have the ability to sin it is inherent in us, part of our dna if you like inherited from our parents and their parents. We know there is a God, this universe couldn't possibly exist without an intelligent Being, but where is He why has He left us alone? what have we done to deserve this level of ostracisation?...very simple if there is a God and that God is good that God cannot possibly stand anything sinful especially a being that is sinful and commits sin even if that being is it's creation, it is like having a child covered in excrement wanting to go play with his father ofcourse the father will have the child clean themself up before they go, how do we deal with the sin problem? how do we restore the line with our Creator? we need spiritual cleansing to repair the interrupted contact with our creator.
How about you explain islamuc theology without referring to the koran?
do good works? even a pedofile does good works once a while what does that mean they are going to jannah with young pearly boys and eternal wine to continue their pedofilia?
Yes, you love them as human beings but you do not love the evilness that they do. How can this be so hard to understand?
I'm the one who told you that. 1) You can't love their evil 2) you can't love their disbelief/hate of God
From our point of view you are worshipping something conjured by a fake, a deceiver, a father of lies, only the devil would create a being as feeble and idiotic as iblis/shaitan whose sole purpose is to run away from recitation of the koran or is it to hide in a star with his demons in a straight line listening to the koran being recited? or maybe to laugh at people who yawn or hide in the ears of people as they sleep? do you honestly think the nemesis of mankind is that stupid?
Thus a good father is more loving than Allah.
Actually, find one father who will say the words "I love my son's hate for me"
You do not seem to get it, a loving father will love their child regardless, are you aware of David and Absalom?
I don't hate Muhammed, but indeed I feel that he was the hateful one.
Well you've said things about him that noone would say unless their heart was filled with hate
.
Suppose Mohammed was a vengeful (a fatwa on little girls for laughing at him) individual who congratulated his followers for killing his opponents some of them no threat to him whatsoever. That raped captured women, and tortured indivuals as portrayed by your hadiths what are we suppose to say about him?
You preach love, but the façade dissipates to expose your true self. That's the mark of a hypocrite in faith. And you should learn more if you think he is hateful,
Nothing but a pack of lies, written by modern muslim apologetics performing moral acrobatics picking and choosing which hadiths suit their point of view.
I challenge you to show me one hadith that shows the early muslims were under persecution, no biography book, no
website, just the chapter and verse from your quran and/or sunnah, parroting muslim clerics that Mohammed and his followers were under persecution means absolutely nothing without foundation from your scriptures, which is all they and you can work with.
He had people killed and he was not a good example like Jesus Christ.
You probably feel the same way about Moses (pbuh).
What you fail to comprehend is from Moses to Jesus is progressive fulfillment of prophecy, progressive revelation of peace of loving thy neighour as yourself, Moses did what he had to do for one the tribes around palestine/Israel were attacking them they didn't want them around it was a war time era, the christian apostles is under no obligation to go about killing anybody
and they did not kill anybody,
Compare this to this type of behaviour:
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken as captives. The captives were divided among the Muslims. Then the Messenger began taking the homes and property that were closest to him.”
Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.’”
Why didn't Jesus or the apostles give out such edicts?
Muhammed did call his followers to fight other nations too.
These things are hateful actions.
Then you must think that John the Baptist and the Essenes, which protected Jesus (pbuh) as a youth, are also hateful, since they fought the Romans.
Aren't you suppose to add pbuh for John the Baptist? incidentally do you know what "ALAYHEE
SALAM" and "SALA ALLAH ALAYHEE, WA
SALEM" mean?
How about instead of trying to compare God to things, you listen to divine revelation to see what God says about Himself?