Don't you mean when the spirit Jibreel checked it with Mohammed for recital purposes once a year and twice in the year of his death?

Yes, and I hope you realize that it was recited by the companions and memorized by them in the Prophet's lifetime. The entire Qur'an is recited during the month of Ramadan during prayers even.

At what point did Mohammed authenticate and validate the koran according to Zaid ibn thabit?, at what point did he authenticate and validate the koran according to Aobi bin ka'ab?, at what point did he authenticate and validate the koran according to Abu Bakr two years after his death? (633-34), at what point did he authenticate and validate the koran collected by the third caliph Uttman (done between 644-656)? I hope you are aware by now your sunnah speaks of several contradictory incidents that led to the creation of this koran, first it was Abu Bakr supposedly done two years after Mohammed's death, which others suspect was a lie to get the creation of the koran as close to Mohammed as possible, then it was Uthmann who collected it (25 yrs after mohammed's death), or maybe it was Ali shia saint and fourth caliph who collected it, who do we believe?

At what point did Mohammed authenticate and validate the koran according to the above mentioned individuals?

Welcome back bro. You asked this question on page four or five of this thread and I still think you're coming with a false understanding of what Abu Bakr vs. Uthman did.

The collection of the Qur'an's chapters into a bound book, instead of leaves with no particular order (because each Chapter is stand-alone), was such a major event because it hadn't happened in the life of the Prophet. In fact, this is known in jurisprudence as "bid3aa hasanah" or "good innovation" since binding the book does not contradict any precept in islam, even though it is an innovation since it wasn't done during the Prophet's time. Muslims highlight this event, actually, to show the permissibility of other innovations that don't contradict religion. You approach as if it's a big deal because something wrong happened, whereas Muslims focus on it to show that it was a major jurisprudential decision that was taken.

Take a look at this to understand the deception of calling the Abu Bakr event and the Uthman event "two different collections":

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... ffery.html

and the bottom half of this, after the big space:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... ajjaj.html

The mere fact that you are willing to consider an alternative explanation that contradicts your own scriptures but as far as it opposes the opposition speaks volumes about you.

Not really. I've always mentioned that I disagree with the Jews on theological points. However, Believer is saying that Jews are blind because they misinterpret their own texts whereas the Jews say that the Missionaries are mistranslating the texts and taking pronouns to mean what they want them to mean i.e. Jesus (pbuh). I'd never say that the Jews are entirely correct, but I am showing that their interpretation encompasses some Truths about the nature of God, but fails on the recognition of Jesus the Messiah, whereas the Christian account encompasses the Truth of Jesus' identity as the Messiah, but fails on its interpreting the nature of God.

When did Mohammed authenticate or saw Yusuf Ali's abrogated translation of the koran? which I suspect is what you use

Yusuf Ali is a reliable English translation. I can read Arabic so it's not necessary to use a translation.

Scriptural proof pls

Qur'an (6:75-83)

http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~moiz/qura ... &sh=1&ph=1

I see there must be a mechanism of memorisation lets put aside that the message could certainly be demon inspired and it contradicts all previous revelations but this time the onus of proof that it is divine is in the mechanism of memorisation?

No not at all. Whether or not you believe that the Message itself is demon-inspired is where your choice comes in. However, the point is that assuredly the Qur'an you have today are the very words uttered by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

How does this arabic fable trace back to the real Jesus?

It traces back to Muhammad (pbuh). Whether or not you accept this as revelation is up to you. It's like how Moses spoke of the Prophets before him.

You are ofcourse implying we are accountable to the allah in your koran? for our crime of hanging pictures of dogs in our home? or pointing to mecca when urinating?

Yes, and drinking wine and eating the flesh of swine and missing your prayers each day and not fasting the month of Ramadan. Everyone is accountable for what they did or failed to do as religion in the sight of your Lord is Islam.

Pls bear in mind your audience do not believe for one second your 'prophet' is anything but a prophet, and do read what I highlighted in bold.

Right and that's the choice one makes. However, the Qur'anic text we know today was written, though not ordered, in the life of the Prophet Muhammad.

Circular logic

Not really. It would be circular logic to believe in a document that isn't linked back to a Prophet. Otherwise you have to say something like "I have faith that the document was not distorted even though it was never seen or written by the Prophet AND I have faith that this prophet was a prophet sent by God. So many people I know need to have faith just that their documents are authentic, which is circular logic.

How about you explain islamuc theology without referring to the koran?
do good works? even a pedofile does good works once a while what does that mean they are going to jannah with young pearly boys and eternal wine to continue their pedofilia?

Be careful bro, non-muslims will tell you that Islam is a religion in which good works necessarily lead you to heaven. This isn't true. One's belief and intentions supercede one's actions, and God's Mercy in even purifying us and allowing us to enter heaven supercede's one's belief and intentions.

Belief in God is a perpetual thing for which we are accountable. Nobody in the world can do enough good deeds and works, perpetually, to counter-act a lifetime of perpetual disbelief or associative worship of God except that God grants them leave.

The same goes for intentions. There are some who, even if they were given an eternity, would never strive to know God, they would remain in their ignorance and stubbornness or arrogance all their lives. They may live their entire life having made no sincere effort to know God. They are rewarded for their intentions with an eternity.

From our point of view you are worshipping something conjured by a fake, a deceiver, a father of lies, only the devil would create a being as feeble and idiotic as iblis/shaitan whose sole purpose is to run away from recitation of the koran or is it to hide in a star with his demons in a straight line listening to the koran being recited? or maybe to laugh at people who yawn or hide in the ears of people as they sleep? do you honestly think the nemesis of mankind is that stupid?

Read this to learn about Satan from the Islamic perspective, it's a great article:

http://www.ymofmd.com/books/satanmisleadings.pdf

You do not seem to get it, a loving father will love their child regardless, are you aware of David and Absalom?

I don't think we're on the same level, no. No father will love their child's hate for them. Imagine a son walking up to his father and declaring with full conviction that he hates him. When will the father ever say "you know what son, this feeling of hate you have for me, I love this"

Suppose Mohammed was a vengeful (a fatwa on little girls for laughing at him) individual who congratulated his followers for killing his opponents some of them no threat to him whatsoever. That raped captured women, and tortured indivuals as portrayed by your hadiths what are we suppose to say about him?

I'd try to be very certain that what I'd read was true, and where it is, what the details were before I rejected a Prophet of God.

I challenge you to show me one hadith that shows the early muslims were under persecution, no biography book, no website

You can even go watch a PBS documentary about Islam to know that the Muslims were boycotted, starved, and tortured for their beliefs. The hadith texts aren't historical documents, they are documents that record the Prophet's sayings regarding religious rulings and theological points or rites of worship.

But here's one:

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 40:
Narrated Nafi (through another group of sub-narrators): A man came to Ibn 'Umar and said, "O Abu Abdur Rahman! What made you perform Hajj in one year and Umra in another year and leave the Jihad for Allah' Cause though you know how much Allah recommends it?" Ibn 'Umar replied, "O son of my brother! Islam is founded on five principles, i.e. believe in Allah and His Apostle, the five compulsory prayers, the fasting of the month of Ramadan, the payment of Zakat, and the Hajj to the House (of Allah)." The man said, "O Abu Abdur Rahman! Won't you listen to why Allah has mentioned in His Book: 'If two groups of believers fight each other, then make peace between them, but if one of then transgresses beyond bounds against the other, then you all fight against the one that transgresses. (49.9) and:--"And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." Ibn 'Umar said, "We did it, during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle when Islam had only a few followers. A man would be put to trial because of his religion; he would either be killed or tortured. But when the Muslims increased, there was no more afflictions or oppressions." The man said, "What is your opinion about 'Uthman and 'Ali?" Ibn 'Umar said, "As for 'Uthman, it seems that Allah has forgiven him, but you people dislike that he should be forgiven. And as for 'Ali, he is the cousin of Allah's Apostle and his son-in-law." Then he pointed with his hand and said, "That is his house which you see."
Volume 4, Book 56, Number 809:
Narrated Khabbab bin Al-Arat:
We complained to Allah's Apostle (of the persecution inflicted on us by the infidels) while he was sitting in the shade of the Ka'ba, leaning over his Burd (i.e. covering sheet). We said to him, "Would you seek help for us? Would you pray to Allah for us?" He said, "Among the nations before you a (believing) man would be put in a ditch that was dug for him, and a saw would be put over his head and he would be cut into two pieces; yet that (torture) would not make him give up his religion. His body would be combed with iron combs that would remove his flesh from the bones and nerves, yet that would not make him abandon his religion. By Allah, this religion (i.e. Islam) will prevail till a traveler from Sana (in Yemen) to Hadrarmaut will fear none but Allah, or a wolf as regards his sheep, but you (people) are hasty.

Why didn't Jesus or the apostles give out such edicts?

If we take a look at Jesus' (pbuh) Prophethood, before he ascended to heaven to Christian community was no larger than the Muslim community in Meccah. Muhammad, like Jesus, preached openly and in secret during these parallel times. Had either Jesus fought the romans or Muhammad fought the pagans in Meccah, they both would have been annihilated because this wasn't God's plan. However, any fighting began after the Muslims had migrated to Medina, and this was while there were Muslims in Meccah either living in secret or being boycotted and oppressed. That's why Jihad takes place, until no man is oppressed for his belief. Jesus, of course, ascended before the Christian community could parallel the Muslim one in Medina, with respect to the Romans. Had the command come from God, and the Christians been able, then the Christians would have defended their brethren openly against the Romans.

Aren't you suppose to add pbuh for John the Baptist? incidentally do you know what "ALAYHEE SALAM" and "SALA ALLAH ALAYHEE, WA SALEM" mean?

Yeah I missed that, I should have though. Those phrases mean "upon him be the peace [of God]" and "upon whom be the peace and blessings of God".

You mean divine revelations like you better listen to my prophet and you better not raise your voice above his, and you better not confront him when he takes what has been made lawful for him ( e.g. sleeping with female slaves when he promised Hafsa and Aisha he wouldn't but when Hafsa found out and told Aisha she made a scene and lo and behold sura 66 was revealed), or there will be eternal doom for you because..because allah is merciful???

Are you jealous of the Prophet because you disbelieve in his prophet-hood or do you disbelieve in his prophet-hood because you are jealous that you have to obey the Prophet? The Prophet also was obligated to pray throughout the night as well as fast continuous days for his being a Prophet, not too many are jealous of these obligations.

Here's the exegesis of Surah 66, the incident I think you're referring to:

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=66&tid=54321

Have you ever wondered why it is that only mohammed obtains revelations/inspirations from allah NOBODY ELSE but yet in the old and new testaments God speaks to several people simultaenously?

Well God only make revelations to Prophets and the Prophet Muhammad is the last and final Messenger.

The Jews don't accept that Jesus is the Messiah.
So the Jews change the Torah so that Jesus is not the Messiah.
So the same Jews change the Torah into something you agree with.
Since this agrees with your views from the Quran you agree with them.

No, the Jews clearly mixed truth with falsehood, it's not Boolean as you make it out to be.

Jesus (pbuh) was clearly the prophesied Messiah, but the Torah had been so distorted with altered criteria for the Messiah that Jesus (pbuh) no longer fit the description as far as they were concerned. While he was performing miracles, they were complaining about how he was breaking their man-made laws in doing so, utter myopia.

However, instead of writing that they rejected Jesus (pbuh) and helped others try to crucify him because some recognized that he was returning them to the true laws and creed of Moses (pbuh), they wrote in the Talmud that they rejected him because he was committing heresy, and lying, and performing magic, and making insults about Mary's chastity. They wanted to give the Jews a believable explanation as to why they rejected the Messiah, they weren't about to write "because he exposed how far our faith had deviated".

They certainly don't find him in the Torah!As well as they don't find any mention of trees and rocks calling out to muslims to come kill them either.

This is a prophecy, not a command.

Exscuse me, but HE was born a Jewish.What practices are you saying HE didn't follow?

He was a Jew in that he followed the Mosaic laws, not the laws that existed and were practiced by most Jews in his time.

So much for free speech huh?So let's get this straight, you condone beheading people becuase of negative poetry?Yet you said earlier in this thread that you were against people being oppressed?Yeah they propbably were reading there Torah, and showed how far away from their Books teachings Muhmmad was, so bang, 'Off with their heads'!Pretty sick reasoning.

Except this wasn't a matter of mere disbelief. The poetry wasn't a few verses of "well to you be your way and to me mine, I disbelieve". When people mix truth with falsehood, and slander God's religion in order to distort the message of God and purposefully misguide people, then these people don't fall under the umbrella of "free speech," they have openly declared themselves as enemies of God.

Imagine Jesus (pbuh) during one of his sermons to the apostles and a deviant who would yell at the top of his voice to ridicule Jesus's words and drown him out, then bely what he had said to would-be believers outside.

Then it would show the Qu'ran as false, since it admits Jesus was sinless.What I mean is that if HE was and IS sinless, yet HE was not really crucified, then HE would have been a willing participant in decieving others, and letting lies about HIMSELF be told.Frankly the whole discussion would have been moot if the Jews simply showed the body etc...yet that is exactly what didn't happen.HE was seen by HIS disciples, and showed the where the nails had "pierced" HIM etc...Why would God deceive anyone about it?HE IS truth, not a lier, so be careful what you attribute HIM.

No not at all, but an excellent question I have to say. Yes Jesus was sinless and he never uttered a lie. But at the same time he never was a part of any "deception". You base what Jesus said and did on the Biblical account, but you don't know that this is what Jesus actually said and did. Jesus' true followers all knew the creed they had been taught by Jesus and it didn't revolve around Jesus' future crucifixion. That's why the only thing that's moot are the later interpretations of the crucifixion into tenets of Trinitarian Christian faith. The body removed from the crucifix was not Jesus', as the whole crucifixion of Jesus himself did not occur, but was only made to appear to them so, and for anyone who actually followed Jesus' message, it had no bearing on the tenets of faith even if some BELIEVED it was him that had been crucified, because Jesus (pbuh) had never placed this event in the context of the body of religious teachings. It was only later that people ascribed meaning to it from assuming that Jesus (pbuh) had died on the cross.

By the way, talk about poems songs etc...Tell us about the songs Palestinian children are taught at very young ages, and who knows where else it is taught, that "Arabs are beloved, and Jews are dogs?!I know people who grew up there are say they were absolutley taught that as children, and that everything in their everyday lives was and is about hating Jews etc...

Well I don't really know any songs like that, but I think it's sad that you want to fuel your hate of Islam with the things that Arabs or Muslims shouldn't do anyway. "Muslims do this therefore Islam is bad" ideology is foolish, because anyone can tell you that if and when people preach hate, then it's not Islamic. Plus it's not like hate is monopolized:

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=0&section ... m=6&y=2003

because if someone says they follow Jesus or accpet HIM as their Messiah, then goes against HIS teachings and the way HE lived, then they are a mockery to themselves, not Jesus, nor HIS words

True, but in order to make that comparison someone first has to be sure he knows what Jesus taught. Otherwise their benchmark is warped and they reject what Jesus actually taught.

Suadia is very much the advocate of Shiria law and Islamic laws in general, come on now.

Oh don't get me wrong, I completely advocate Shariah laws, I just don't think that Saudi Arabia is implementing them properly. If it was, it would need to punish the Royal Family first and foremost for the billions of dollars it embezzles from the country.

In Saudia Arabia it is illegal to have a Christian Bible,

Not a law in Shariah

to convert to Christianity.

Can't be illegal to believe what you believe unless you openly declare it, which I don't think anyone would need to if they are truly worshipping God and not doing it to please people.

It is illegal to build a Church or synagogue there, and there are none.

True, it is not lawful to build a place of worship besides a Mosque on Muslim land unless it is purchased by a non-Muslim and then they can do what they want with it.

If a Muslim is caught for converting to Christianity, it is well known fact that they are taken into a public area etc...and beheaded!!!

Not sure how someone can be caught in the act of conversion, but if someone openly declares their disbelief and begins to prosthelitize falsehood against Islam, that's where I think there are problems.

It's a big public event, much like in Afghanistan where they showed them shooting a woman in the head with an ak47 at point blank range in the soccer field.

I saw that actually, not that I think the Taliban know what a true Islamic state is, but we never actually found out what that execution was for. There's a big difference between being executed for allegedly converting from Islam to being executed for having murdered your husband.

So much for religious tolerance huh?Or "no compulsion in religion"!!! Please don't go to S.A. and say they don't advocate laws of Islam

Right, nobody can be forced to accept Islam.

Thanks for the link.I'll check it out soon.

You should, it owns the theory of evolution in every way. Once Believer reads it, he'll be convinced as well.

Frankly, the texts that you say are alleged, are far earlier than Islam's texts, so IMHO that rules out any authority of the Qu'ran to dictate to us what is authentic, and what is not.

Except we aren't working from non-divine texts. And even if we were, earlier doesn't always mean more authentic.

Jesus died with the wicked like a criminal, and He was buried in a rich man's tomb, and He died of course. He was raised, his days were prolonged. He was a guilt offering for us, as this was the Father's will.
He bears our iniquities.

But I don't believe that Jesus (pbuh) died, my understanding of those lines would be limited to divine revelation.

Humble, the Jews lies about Jesus say say he lied and stuff.
You CANNOT trust what they say about Isiah 53 and Psalm 22 or anything eolse.
You are letting yourself become decieved further.

Don't worry bro, I'm the one who notes that because the Jews lied about the true identity of Jesus (pbuh) that they're writings can't be trusted. I don’t base any of my beliefs on modern Jewish Scripture. All I was telling you was the texts on which you disagree have two interpretations, because they're human texts after all.

Jesus have his diciples the Holy Spirit to give them strength to spread His Word and not distort it. Jesus trusted his diciples, and He was with them through the Spirit. The Spirit is no angel, but the very Spirit of God Himself.

Don't get me wrong, the apostles of Jesus are mentioned in the Qur'an, I don't claim that prophets wrote lies about Jesus, but the key is to know who was and wasn't an apostle, hypocrites are always rife in the age of Prophets.

What proof do you have? This is all talk.
Abram was just another man of Ur, worshipped at the ziggurat and otehr things. God chose Him and came to Him and He became Abraham, and believer on the one God.
Is this so hard to accept???? It really doesn't matter if he was a pagan or not, God chose Him and He stopped his former practices.

Read the above link I posted at the beginning. None of God's prophets ever committed polytheism or worshipped anyone but God. They are ranks above normal people and are protected spiritually from misguidance.

Okay, three reasons:
1)These storied came from to different unrelated infancy gospels
2)These were written centuries after the Gospels
3)The storied are outrageous and silly and the much earlier Gospel narrative is FAR more believeable and logical.

As a man of reason I am obligated to accept the earlier logical narrative rather than far-fetched stories from later occuring story-books written by people that NEVER even saw anything about Jesus considering he lived centuries before these writing were composed.

1) but they don't exactly match the contradicting accounts of the infancy gospels
2) the stories were, yes, but that doesn't negate the fact that parts of the accounts could be true
3) the earlier gospels describe other miracles of Jesus which nobody denies, but to say that one account of Jesus' birth place is silly is being subjective, but I'll give you that one, except the Qur'an confirms the second account, which is why I believe it, not because it's partly mentioned in an infancy gospel, or because the earlier gospels are "less silly"

As a man of reason, you should accept the more authentic account, not necessarily the earlier one. For example, those infancy gospels could have been written by secluded believers of Jesus, much as the essenes were secluded and are often said to have written the dead sea scrolls. They may have passed the stories and miracles of Jesus by oral tradition before committing them to writing.

How do you know that the originals of these aren't the same ones today?
I suppose you would need to ask a Jewish rabbi or Brahaman what memorization techniques they use.

What indication do we have that the Torah of today was the same one that Moses held in his hand?

That in itself is not a way to prove something is true or from God.

Correct, but one should first be able to pinpoint exactly WHERE a text came from, THEN decide whether to believe it or not. They shouldn't have to first have faith that it came from a man and hasn't been changed, THEN have faith that he was a Prophet. That's resting faith on faith, which is doubt.

God created the Physical world, cannot He exist as what He designed?

God is unchanging and is independent of his creations.

http://www.islam101.com/tauheed/AllahNames.htm

Jesus IS the Lord, accepting that reality is hard for you.
Why can't you accept what is so obvious?

It's not obvious bro, you only think that because you read it in the Bible. But if you knew that the Bible was never seen by Jesus, and that Jesus never said all of the things that the Bible claims he did, you wouldn't think that Jesus was the Lord either. You think that by not believing Jesus is the Lord, that you are calling Jesus a liar. On the contrary, it's because Jesus never said this about himself that one shouldn't believe it.

Sure he won't, but you will hear him say "I love my dear son, but I am upset that he is doing evil things. He is my child and I love him. but gee I hate what he is doing to himself! Hope he comes home"

Right, except from a technical standpoint, to love something is to love everything that it is, and "to love him" means to "love his hate for me" as well. It's a technical point, we basically differ in that I would say "you love everything about it and everything good for him, EXCEPT his sinfulness and his hate"

as people created out of His love and pwer. Love them as unique individuals that have a soul and need help. like you would love a sick person. They are sick spiritually.
Why can't you do this?

Yeah that's it, you just can't love their hate of God, or their sinfulness itself, you SHOULD feel very sorry for them as you would a sick person

they generously give them aide and food. Are not the Christian nissionaries more righteous than Muslims?
That is love right there, caring for prople even if they hate you.
It's a tough thing sometimes, but hat is what my God expects from Christians.

That's good, but nobody "hates the Christians". It's that nobody can love a Christian's ascribing partners in worship to God.

Muhammed rehressed from the teachings of Christ about loving our enemies and doing good even to thjose that would not aappreciat it.

That's not true, bro.

We can both agree that Baha'uallah is a false prophet, but tell a Bahai that.
You believe that Apostle Paul is a false prophet, well don't get all mad if I see Muhammed as a false prophet.

But it's so different than that. We know Baha'uallah is a false prophet because of what we know he said. But you think Muhammad is a false prophet because he contradicts what you THINK Jesus said, but if you knew what Jesus said, you would realize that they are brothers in faith.

Jesus came for all people and gave uis the eMessage for the modern world, not a set of strict laws like Moses gave to the Israelites, but a set of very effective teachings that we must model ourselves after for true peace in the world.
Muhammed sought to undue what Jesus had done, the spiritual force in him opposed Christ.

Actually, Jesus (pbuh) himself lived by the strict laws of Moses.

Yes, I do believe that.
Not John the Baptist howeevr, he was the greatest prophet under Christ.
He wasa preacher like Jesus, in the ways of Elijah as a wandering prophet.

The Essenes followed John the Baptist and he was among them. They weren't an unrighteous group as you think.

For the millionth time, God like a good father or anyone DOES NOT LOVE THE EVILNESS THAT MEN DO.
God loves his children, even those that do evil beacuse they are people like you and me, only Satan corrupted their mind and they do evil things. You love you car, even if it's beat up and falling apart, it's your car you love, not the ugly dents and scratches on it.

We're saying the same thing then, so long as you separate the sin and hate from the person that you love. You love them except for those things in them.

If Chrisians and Jews can convert to Islam with out being assaulted by their peers, then Muslims should have freedom to accept Christianity or Judaism.
Religion is a right that a person has, only he can choose his path to God.
A violation of this is WRONG.

Muslims believe they have the absolute Truth. So it's different when someone converts TO Islam than when someone converts away. For clear reasons.

And cutting hair too?
What if someone doesn't want to look different than everyone else?

It was to differentiate between people according to taxes and prevent espionage. You think it's ok for someone to dress up like a Hassidic Jew and walk among Hassidic Jews to deceive them?

And crescent moons on top of every mosque is what???

It's not on top of every mosque. But when it is, it's supposed to symbolize the lunar calendar. Besides, it's not like the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prayed in a mosque like that, or that he ever ordered that mosques be built with that thing.

What about raising cvoiced in a solemn song or prayer?

Yeah that's ok, but you can't weep and cry and wail during a funeral because you're bawling. It's a sign in distrust of God's mercy to the deceased.

I think bowing to pagan shrine is PERVERTED worship of God.
For you to say that Almighty God's presence exists in the Kaabah is just blsphemous and insulting.

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on. First of all the Kaabaa is not a pagan shrine, it was built by Abraham as commanded by God, and the pagan later hijacked it.

Second of all, Muslims don't believe that God's presence exists inside the Kaabaa. The Kaabaa is the "qiblah" the direction towards which one prays to God, it doesn't mean that's where God is.

Actually it was because early Christians despised the Jews and suppressed them. They were subject to pogroms and things and were persecuted like Christians were in Muslim lands.

Noone would ever compare minority rights and pogroms and persectuion in Christendom to minorities rights in Islam.

Prophecy. Jeus fulfilled what was written by the prophets.

Yes, and he IS the Messiah.

Again, things in our universe CANNOT be more complex than God.
Water amd MAss-eberget, Space-time, thinese things CANNOT be more complex than God. These things don't have more than three forms, interesting.

Ok but you shouldn't compare God to His own creations.

The question today is not "Did Adam come fro dust", but which ancient line of hominids did humans derive from.

No way bro. Check this out www.darwinismrefuted.com Those hominids that evolutions claim are predecessors to humans, didn't even evolve from each other, and are said to have CO-EXISTED in different parts of the world.

Peace bros