Aineo wrote:
You have not addressed every thing I have posted. Go back to the Messianic Prophesies vs. Trinity thread where you rejected that those Scriptures apply to Christ, this is not addressing what I post, it is refusing to address Scripture.
I told you several times already. I don't disagree with the Messianic Prophecies (except Proverbs 8 which is not talking of Christ). So stop sayin' that. I agree with the messianic prophecies. Now that we've got that cleared up finally, maybe we can move forward.
Now, lets put Revelation 1:7 in context, something you never do.
oh, come now. let's not be silly here.
Revelation 1:1-8
1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne; 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us, and released us from our sins by His blood, 6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father; to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. Even so. Amen.
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." NAS
God gave John the visions of Revelation. Vs. 4-7 apply to the Lord, vs. 8 applies to God as do all the other uses of Alpha and Omega. Jesus is the first and the last in God's plan for the redemption of mankind.
and yet we see in verses 10-11:
I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
John hears a voice say those words (that you said only God uses), and when he turns around to see who it is, verses 12-18 explain who is speaking:
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
on the basis of these clear verses, you must concede your stance.
This also makes perfect sense with Zechariah 12:10:
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Jesus was "pierced", not the Father. But yet here God is saying "
Me, whom they have pierced."
Elohiym is an irregular Hebrew noun and can be both plural and singular. If you took the time to actually read the Scriptures I posted you would have read the "elohiym" is not always plural. BTW, I have not denied that elohiym can be a plural noun. What I have shown you is that elohiym does not indicate a compound unity.
i'm tired of your attempts at appealing to this. one is one, we agree. saying that "it does not indicate a compound unity" is just something that you're saying on the basis of what you already believe. It could mean compound if it's qualified. However, when we accept what you say we run into problems. For instance, "One Body" does not mean a compound unity either, UNLESS IT'S QUALIFIED, however we see in these verses:
1 Corinthians 12:12
For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:20
But now indeed there are many members, yet one body.
"One Body" doesn't mean a compound unity, BUT IT DOES HERE. which is what i'm saying. while Elohiym doesn't necessarily mean "Compound Unity", if it's QUALIFIED, as clearly the Scriptures teach, then it most certainly can mean that. you fail to understand that.
As to JW's and Islam the only similarity to what they believe and what I believe involves there is only one God, the Father.
you guys use all the same verses and the same arguments, which is what i was saying.
And you can deny God's word all you want but Jesus tells us this in John 17:3. Jesus did not preexist creation, God's word, which is God's creative power and became flesh preexisted creation.
how is that saying that He didn't preexist the Creation???
Now, when are you going to discuss Peter's sermon in Acts 2?
let's see:
ok. what about it? Jesus became submissive to the will of the father. you're still stuck with the dilemma that Jesus claimed things that only God can claim. our position makes sense, because Jesus could become submissive to the will of the Father and still be one with Him. while clearly your position is blasphemy. because Isaiah says in 42:8:
I am the LORD, that is My name;
And My glory I will not give to another,
Nor My praise to carved images.
if you believe that it's ok to Honor the Son as the Father, and that you also accept this verse, but you deny that Christ is One with the Father, then you're saying that God says to give honor and glory to someone else other than Him. how does that make sense?