Trinity DebateBefore Abraham Was,I AMYou are displaying your own ignorance. “Lord” is used in Scripture for men of high rank or simply as we would use “sir”. Sarah referred to Abraham as her “lord”, a slave owner (including Christians who owned slaves) were referred to as “lord”. Jesus is sovereign as any king is sovereign over his kingdom and Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords over all human beings and God’s creation because God anointed Him King, and also appointed Him His heir. As to the article you posted from Christianity Today, I find it a superficial response to Brown’s “The Da Vinci Code”, which has nothing to do with this discussion. However, lets look at a couple of points found in the article. The tetragrammaton YWHW is the third person singular of the Hebrew “hayah” and should be translated “he is”, not “I am”. Also to appeal to the Septuagint, which did not translate YWHW but adhered to the Hebrew custom of substituting “lord” for their covenant name for God is simply striving over words found in a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. Justin Martyr did not teach or even have the concept of the Trinity. This concept was first developed by Origin, and since neither Justin Martyr or Origin knew or were taught by one of the Lord’s apostles you are appealing to Greeks influenced by Plato and other Greek philosophers as well as their pagan origins. The same is true of St. Irenaeus. Have you read or researched what these three men believed and why they believed what they believed? As to Arius, he taught that Jesus was divine by creation and therefore not equal with or of the same substance as the Father. His Christology was rejected and declared heretical by other Greeks who were influenced by Origin’s Christology, neither of which was based on Scripture. So what did the apostles teach? On the Day of Pentecost Peter preached: Acts 2:14-36 14 But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea, and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give heed to my words. 15 "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; 16 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 17 'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'That I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all mankind; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams; 18 Even upon My bondslaves, both men and women, I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit And they shall prophesy. 19 'And I will grant wonders in the sky above, And signs on the earth beneath, Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke. 20 'The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come. 21 'And it shall be, that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' 22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 23 this Man, delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24 "And God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. 25 "For David says of Him, 'I was always beholding the Lord in my presence; For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. 26 'Therefore my heart was glad and my tongue exulted; Moreover my flesh also will abide in hope; 27 Because Thou wilt not abandon my soul to Hades, Nor allow Thy Holy One to undergo decay. 28 'Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; Thou wilt make me full of gladness with Thy presence.' 29 "Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 "And so, because he was a prophet, and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants upon his throne, 31 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh suffer decay. 32 "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. 33 "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. 34 "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, 35 Until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet. "' 36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ-- this Jesus whom you crucified." NAS Do you see the Trinity in what Peter preached to Jews who understood the Messianic prophesies? I don’t! In fact in Acts 5 we read: Acts 5:28-32 29 But Peter and the apostles answered and said, "We must obey God rather than men. 30 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. 31 "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him." NAS And Paul wrote: Romans 5:15 15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. NAS 1 Timothy 2:5-7 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time. 7 And for this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. NAS Jesus is our "one Lord" because no man can come to the Father except through the Lord Jesus Christ by God's sovereign decree. This is known as a chain of command. absolutetruth, you abandoned the following threads so why try to come back on this one when this has all been discussed on these: http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=7710 http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=7712 http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=7720 You could not refute what I posted on the above so what makes you think I will accept what you have to say on this thread? When any of you are willing to discuss Scripture (in context) instead of striving over words then just maybe we can advance this discussion beyond man’s interpretations of God’s word. |
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