Abdurrahman wrote:
Paul's innovations in Christian faith
1. Disciples of the way (followers of Jesus' message) were first called "Christians" by Paul & Barnabas at Antioch several years after Jesus left our earth [Acts 11:26]. It is not just a change of name. The implications are grave, for now the principle of unity of God has been shattered & Christ has become "the Lord" together with God. This paved the way for the later emergence of the trinity with holiness & divinity shared by 3 entities (father, son & spirit).
Kai replies:
We have already argued this; the title Christian is nowhere related to be an inauguration of Paul. If you propose that it relates to the corruption of Christianity into a Trinitarian faith, and you want retain your integrity, I suggest you present some biblical or historical evidences.
Abdurrahman wrote:
2. He constructed the Church & organized its hierarchy of apostles, prophets, priests, elderly, …etc [Acts 14:23/15:6/20:28 & 1 Corinthians 12:28 & Titus 1:5]. He then added the ranks of bishops & deacons [Philippians 1:1]. He stated the qualifications for being appointed in these positions [1 Timothy 3: 1-13].
Kai replies:
Again, we have already been through this; the so called church hierarchy was already present before Paul began his ministry.
Secondly, there is not evidence that Paul inaugurated such a church system; most likely he learned from the church in Antioch which originated from Jewish evangelists and later appointed leadership, which was sent with apostolic authority from Jerusalem.
May I also suggest that you read 1 Peter chapter 5, which reveals that the church positions and the necessary qualifications were indeed generally apostolic, not Pauline.
Abdurrahman wrote:
Among several conditions required, a bishop or deacon must be the husband of only one wife (indicating that polygamy was the rule at the time, years after Jesus has gone),
Kai replies:
Could you please prove to me that polygamy was a common practice among the Jews, Greeks and the Romans at Paul’s time.
And even though it was, and it was (just not common), it would have been practiced among the Jews and the pagans, not the Christians.
As a matter of fact this passage prohibits the practice of polygamy, as the church leadership was to be the morally exemplary body of the church.
Could you please post the evidence that early Christian or in fact Jesus encouraged or even taught polygamy.
Abdurrahman wrote:
& he must be sober & not given to much wine (drinks, but not much to the state of being addicted to liquor)!
Kai replies:
Well, you are right, neither Jesus nor Paul ban the use of alcohol; Paul however, in this passage prohibits the misuse of it. In other words, Christianity does not permit a Christian to get drunk.
Abdurrahman wrote:
3. Concerning his attitude to alcohol (spirits), Paul does not prohibit it (even to clergymen, vide supra). As a matter of fact, we could say that he insinuates encouraging its consumption. In 1Timothy 5:23, " No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake & your frequent infirmities."
Kai replies:
Well, you answered the question yourself, Paul suggested Timothy personally to drink wine for his physical health; you do realise that wine is good medicine?
Abdurrahman wrote:
In 1Corinthians 11:25, "He [Christ] took the cup [of wine] after supper saying, ' this cup is the new convenant in my blood. This do, as often as you drink it is in remembrance of me."
Kai replies:
Again, the passage does not indicate that Christian would sit or should sit and drink whisky, whenever they gather. The use of wine in both the Jewish and the Greek culture involved a drink of water in which generally 10 percent was vine. On this occassion it relates the holy Communion.
Abdurrahman wrote:
4. Concerning marriage & man-woman relations, he stated a lot of rules that were never revealed by Jesus [1Corinthians 7]. Marriage, as a whole, is not encouraged. Even if one is married, he is not encouraged to seek such lawful carnal knowledge! "I wish that all men were even as myself (unmarried)" Co 7: 7. "I say to the unmarried & the widows: it is good for them to remain even as I am" Co 7: 8. "But this I say brethren, the time is short so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none" Co 7: 29. He invented monogamy & prohibited divorce. In Co 7: 2 "Nevertheless & just for the cause of sexual morality, let each man have his own wife & let each woman have her own husband." In Co 7:10-11 " A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife." According to Paul, Christians are allowed to stay married to non-believers (non-Christians), but such a marriage is not bonding! "If any brother has a wife who does not believe & she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her let her not divorce him … But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases " Co 7:12-15.
Kai replies:
Just correct you on one point; everything Paul says in this chapter is voluntarily. He does state that marriage is good, however, as he further continues: if you have the gift to remain unmarried for the sake of God’s kingdom, that is even better; but, and it this the vital factor, only if you have the calling and the gift.
So Paul does in fact encourage marriage (1 Cor.7: 38):
So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does even better.
And Jesus words in Matthew 20: 12 reveal that Jesus permitted what Paul said, that an individual is allowed to stay unmarried to focus his whole life on God’s kingdom:
12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
Abdurrahman wrote:
5. Concerning the head covering, again some strange unfamiliar habits were introduced by Paul in 1Corinthians 11. He promotes uncovering the head of men & covering that of women during prayers [Co 11:4-5]. However, when a woman is not praying she should keep her hair uncovered! "But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering" Co 11:15. Very strange indeed: while praying uncovering the head of a woman dishonors her & the reason given is that "for this reason the woman has to have a symbol of authority on her head because of the angels" Co 11: 10; yet when she is not praying covering her head becomes now dishonoring & it is a "glory" for her to uncover it!!! The reason: the angels; as if these are not around except when praying & as if God is not there at all. Ladies & gentlemen, it is the angels & nothing but the angels who only become offended with a woman's uncovered head during prayers!
Kai replies:
Well, according to Ephesians 3: 10 the angels observe the church and observe history. The true Church proclaims God’s wisdom in the heavenly realm.
As for the head covering, as a Muslim you should understand the cultural aspect of this.
In the culture Paul is issuing, a women was considered a prostitute if her head was not covered. It was a sign of purity, dignity and faithfulness.
It even proved her marital position.
This same practice is applied for Christians in many eastern and African nations. I don’t see why this practice should be strange; I mean Muslim women typically wear a burkha or head covering.
Abdurrahman wrote:
6. It was Paul who introduced crucifix & designated it with glory & holiness. In Galatians 3: 1 he says, " O you foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified." In Galatians 6:14 "But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our lord Jesus Christ by whom the world has been crucified to me." In Philippians 4: 18 "For, as I have often told you before & now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ."
Kai replies:
Again, you have not the slightest idea or insight into theological or doctrinal analogy and context; all four Gospels refer to Jesus dying on a cross. Jesus himself applied the symbolic side of this to Christian lifestyle and perseverance, or the thriving to accomplish the will of God in our life, to honour Him, despite persecution, torture and death:
‘And anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me’ (Matthew 10: 38)
Abdurrahman wrote:
7. Paul has stood against many of the rituals & rules of Judaism stated in the Law (Old Testament) including circumcision, fasting, prayers & food. In 1Timothy 4:1-7 he says, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith & follow deceiving spirits & doctrines taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry & order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe & know the truth. For everything God has created is good & nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is sanctified by the word of God & prayer…. Have nothing to do with godless myths & old witches' fables [Jewish priests]."
Kai replies:
Could you please tell me and others what godless myths & old witches’ fables have got to do with Jewish priests?
In fact we are Ephesus at this point not in Jerusalem.
In fact the context and analogy refers to Gnosticism not Judaism.
Abdurrahman wrote:
In Colossians 3:20 he adds, "Since you have died with Christ to the basic principles [profanes] of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules [the law]? 'Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch', all concerning things that perish with using, because they are based on commandments & doctrines of men. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom with their self-imposed worship, their false humility & their harsh treatment of the body. But they lack any value in restraining indulgences of the flesh."
Kai replies:
Colossians 3: 20 concerns the philosophy of Gnosticism not Judaism.
It's a fact from the context that Judaism was also a matter in Colosse, but the primary matter is Gnosticism.
Abdurrahman wrote:
8. Paul gave the churchmen (especially the seniors) that followed his religion powers that are close to those of God. They can grant forgiveness & blessings just by laying their hands over subjects! 1Timothy 4:14.
Kai replies:
Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands you (1 Tim.4: 14)
Exactly, where is the bestowing of forgiveness and blessing referred to in this passage? Where is the power, which is so strongly similar to God’s?
The context of this passage refers to a dedication into Christian ministry, nothing else.
Abdurrahman, dear bro, no offence I hope, but for goodness sake, cant you see that these Islamic scholars are simply pulling your leg.
When an Islamic scholar or website can post this kind of nonsense, you should wonder, what else they fill your mind with.
Because what concerns me, is simply, that you eat it raw. These are the same voices, which tell you that the Bible is changed, that the Koran is a miracle etc; but did it ever occur to you that deception is on their agenda, and you my brother, you are the victim.
Islam will lead you to hell, not away from it.
Do yourself a favour consider the Christian faith, get saved bro, and escape the flames.
Be blessed
Kai