Christian/Muslim ThreadsChristianity: Man-Made Religion; Islam: Divine Principle.Okay, but my contention is that there is a difference between the principle of islam (submission to God) and the religion of Islam (the dos and don’ts that the Quran teaches). Submission’s always been around – we are agreed on that. However, the Quran has not. The rules of the religion of Islam have not. Just because the name of your religion is the same as a principle that’s always been around does not mean that the religion has always been around. The religion of Islam was developed, formed, labeled, and institutionalized just the same as Christianity was – it just so happens that it was labeled the same as an existing principle. Well, if that’s the only objection you have, then this thread’s over. I agree that the terms “Christianity” and “Judaism” are not meant to be indicative of a principle. They are meant to be terms that define a system of beliefs. My objection to you, though, is that you are claiming that just because Islam happens to have the same Arabic name as submission, you are automatically claiming that the religion of Islam (all of the do’s and don’ts of the Quran) has always been around. Again I say, there is a difference between the principle of islam (submission) and the religion of Islam. This is why I asked that the terms “submit” and “submitters” be used as much as possible when referring to the principle and those who follow it. Christianity teaches that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The penalty for that sin is death. Humans are unable to pay that penalty because everything we do is stained by sin. But God loved us so much that He gave His Son to die for us. If we acknowledge our sin and need for a savior, and accept the work that Christ did on the cross in dying for our sins, then we have salvation. This is not a belief in a symbolic event. It is a recognition that we can not do anything to save ourselves, but must depend on God. You misinterpret what I’ve said. If Mohammed were to have taught the same thing as Jesus, then he would have had to teach that Jesus was the only way. But Mohammed taught exactly the opposite. In effect, he said “Jesus is not the way, truth and life - I am.” The only problem there is that Jesus didn’t contradict any of the prophets with His teaching. Mohammed did. Right, but they didn’t follow the religion of Islam. This is not submission. It is doing the only thing you are capable of doing. Oh, you misunderstood. I was talking about the “principle of Christianity”! The point is, if the teachings of Christianity have only been around since after Jesus, why would anything before that be included as part of Christianity’s holy book? The principle, not the religion.
And you have to interpret or understand what is written in the Quran in order to know what God wants you to do right? But you’re trying to prove that everything you need to know has always been around, i.e. submission is all you need to know. And here again you are saying that there actually is more that just the principle of submission that you need to know in order to please God. That’s why I say there is a difference between submission and Islam. Calling your religion “Islam” is a misnomer. It implies that all you do is submit without even knowing what to submit to. You should call it Mohammedism since you are following the rules you think God has given to Mohammed. It’s God paying a debt He didn’t owe because we had a debt we couldn’t pay. If a judge offers to pay the fine of a criminal who owes $1000.00, the criminal is not set free because he puts his faith in the act of the judge paying his debt. He is set free because his debt has been paid. No, God forgives those who do what he says in regards to salvation, i.e. admit they are sinners who cannot save themselves, and accept that Jesus paid their debt on the cross. This is not entirely true, and it shows that you do not really understand what Christianity is about. The teachings of the OT are to be followed, however when it comes to the parts about following the customs and traditions of the law in order to be saved, it is not necessary to follow them because we are not under the law, but under grace. Recall how I told you about the different dispensations of Christianity. What about the NT? What do you believe about the Bible? Is the OT from God, but not the NT? Is it all just a good textbook? Do you not see any symbolism and foreshadowing in the works and sacrifices of the OT as they pertain to the life of Jesus? The KJV was not canonized by King James. The AV is simply, in the opinion of many, the best English translation of the Scriptures that was canonized by the Holy Spirit and recognized by the early church fathers. And how do you know which parts are inspired? How do you pick and choose what in the Bible to believe in? Does it make any sense to say that God would put His “stamp of inspiration” on only a part of a book? If God was going to say that something was inspired, don’t you think He’d inspire the whole thing, so as to prove the authenticity of the whole? If God let uninspired errors into a book that He partially inspired, then why would we believe that any of it is inspired or believable? So is the Bible. So you say. I say the same about the Bible.
The Bible contains for man his purpose, it contains the original message, preserved by God, and it was revealed to over 40 different people over the course of over 4000 years, yet it all speaks the same message, and is never contradictory. Why? Was everybody illiterate and unlearned 1400 years ago? The ancient greeks wrote some pretty good stuff, too, ya’ know. Me too. What about Joseph Smith? What about Sun Myung Moon? Do you believe they were false prophets? Yet their message has spread despite what your interpretation of Duet 18 says. Deut 18:20 was meant as a command to Israel that if they found any false prophets in their midst, they were to put them to death. This was not a blanket statement saying that all false prophets would die. The apostles and many early Christians were beaten, mocked, sentenced to death, and killed, yet their message survived and succeeded. You’ll need to ask God that. I could speculate that perhaps it needed that long to reach the entire world – the Internet wasn’t around back then, ya’ know. Or maybe He waited to validate the fact that this was not just some fly-by-night message that came up recently. The Scriptures had stood the test of time. Islam, the principle. But not Islam, the religion. Islam, the religion, was instituted and labeled just as much as Christianity. Your founders just happened to pick a label that was the same name as an existing principle. They’re not in the Bible, are they? The Holy Spirit has ensured that only the books that He has inspired are included in the Bible. |
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