Christian/Muslim ThreadsChristianity: Man-Made Religion; Islam: Divine Principle.First, why don’t you discuss why Islam needs any kind of revelation from God at all (i.e. Qur’an) if it is just a principle. So you want to try to prove that Islam is not a religion. What’s your definition of religion? I would tend to think that if a “principle” like Islam has people that are regarded as prophets, has a holy book that spells out certain dos and don’ts, and basically outlines the beliefs of that principle, then it should pretty much be classified as a religion. So you believe that everything except for humans is perfect? Tell me then, what happened to brussel sprouts? If everything is perfect, why do they taste so horrible? But how do you know the will of God? Don’t you need some kind of revelation from God telling you what he expects? Isn’t that what you claim the Qur’an is? How is that not religion? And since the Qur’an hasn’t been around since the beginning of time, how can you try to claim that Islam didn’t have a beginning?
And that’s not what Christianity teaches. Do you know what Christianity teaches? According to Christianity, our purpose is to glorify God. Submission is a natural consequence of a life that glorifies God. I guess I can agree with that. But I believe you are in error if you think that being a muslim means only that you are submissive to God. As I’ve already pointed out, you’ve got to do more than that to be a muslim, like follow the Qur’an, pray towards Mecca 5 times a day, etc. I might ask the same thing of muslims. Why follow the Qur’an if you’re only gonna end up sinning? Again I ask: How do you know what God wants, what is His will, unless He reveals it to you? But isn’t that revelation the very thing you are calling “religion”? No. God said they couldn’t eat of the tree, not that they couldn’t even approach it. You, apparently, were never a teenager. :roll: Do you think it’s easy to love your neighbor when their dog barks all night long, when they play obnoxious music for all hours of the day and night, when they hit baseballs into your windows, when their kids trample on the flower in your garden, when they laugh at you because of your beliefs, etc… You’re a better person than I am (and I would guess than most of the world) if you’ve got your emotions that well in check. Ask an Anti-Lifer (aka “pro-choicer”). Apparently, it’s pretty easy for them. You, apparently, are blind. Don’t you remember that Jesus said that to even look on a woman with lust is the same as adultery? You’re trying to tell me it’s easy not to look at women and think lustful thoughts? Delude yourself if you want, but I know this is not an easy command to keep. I don’t think it is. Christians believe in one God manifest in three persons. This belief does not go against the teachings of the Bible. However, there’s plenty of people out there who do believe in many gods, so obviously it must be difficult for them. God demands complete holiness and righteousness, because He cannot allow any kind of sin into heaven. You don’t think that’s a pretty big requirement? Why do we need to look at that if you’re unwilling to even acknowledge the fact that the Qur’an was written thousands of years after the supposed “principle of Islam” was created? So you must not know much about either religion, since you can’t see that there are major differences between the two. What makes you think I don’t already believe that Christianity has not always been called Christianity?
You sound like you might be getting a little confused with the foundational beliefs of Christianity (which have been around since the beginning) and the dispensation known as the Church Age or the Age of Grace. A dispensation basically tells how God deals with his creation during different time periods. An earlier dispensation would be the Age of the Law. The law was given in the OT to the Israelites. But once Christ came and fulfilled the law, the age of grace began, and grace has been give to all, not just the Jews. This is why Paul can proclaim in Romans 6 that we are not under the law, but under grace. The church’s establishment by God is clearly shown in the book of Acts, and the church (which has not always been around, as you rightly note) is the method that God is using today to reach the world. Are you ready to try to defend that position? If you are, then start showing me, from the Bible, how Christianity and the church are unbiblical. Already gone over this. The Jewish faith of the OT was under the law, because grace had not been given yet. Different dispensation. It was instituted by God in the NT. It was labeled by pagans who called followers of Christ, “Christians” or literally “little Christs.” The term was originally meant to be derogatory, but what greater honor is there for a follower of Christ than to be called a “little Christ”? Yeah, they do. However, they do add many other laws that are not given in the OT. And they totally miss the fact that Jesus fulfilled all the prophesies of the Messiah. This is just a false statement altogether. First, Christianity is God-made, not man made, as is shown in the Bible. You have yet to show otherwise. Second, when man makes up interpretation of the Bible and comes up with ideas that are not Scriptural, then yes, you have a faulty doctrine. However, that’s not how Christianity works. Christians read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to show them the proper interpretation. Thus, there is only one interpretation – the Holy Spirit’s. So it’s not man-interpreted. It’s God-interpreted. Third, just because the Bible does not contain certain words, does not mean that the principles are not taught. As you said, some words (like trinity) are not expressly written in the Bible. But as we study the Bible and the Spirit shows us the proper interpretation, we can clearly see that the principles of things like the trinity are taught. Agreed. When man tries to add his own interpretations and traditions into what God has said, you end up with something like Catholicism. However, it is incorrect to dump everyone into the Catholic bucket, since true Christianity and Catholicism are two completely different religion. You just don’t believe He’s given you any kind of revelation other than the submission thing that has been around since the beginning. If you believe in any other revelation other than that, then you have a “man-made religion” according to you, because eventually, somewhere along the line, you’re going to have to interpret that revelation. Oh, so you do believe in additional revelation. So, you must be following a man-made religion. So you don’t believe in God as He’s revealed in the Bible. Why then would you believe anything that’s written in the Bible, like the fact that God revealed Himself to Abraham at all? All right, so we were all created to be Submitters (let’s use that rather than the word muslim, because it is very hard to disassociate that word with the religion of Islam). If we’re supposed to be Submitters, what are we supposed to submit to? God, right? But how do we know what God has said? He has to reveal it to us. I claim He revealed it to us in the Bible. You claim He revealed it in the Qur’an. So ultimately, this thread boils down to which is right – the Bible of the Qur’an; the religion of Christianity or the religion of Islam. I’ve got scads of info showing how the Qur’an is not the Word of God, and I’m sure you have a ton of stuff that you think shows that the Bible isn’t the final authority. There are plenty of other threads that deal with this debate, so have at it on those threads. But the Bible was authored by one person, namely, the Holy Spirit.
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