Christian/Muslim ThreadsChristianity: Man-Made Religion; Islam: Divine Principle. :: reply.reply. Believer, that was my exact point, that "islam" aka "submission" has always been the principle of God taught by the prophets. Remember Islam is not a religion, never does the Quran or prophet Mohammed call it a religion (arabic-madhab) but rather a "way" (arabic-deen). So, yes - this was the teaching of Jesus, the Messiah as quoted in James 4:7. My point was not to refute the Trinity at this point, rather to show that the term "trinty" is not "biblical". The difference between other religions who believe in one God is that they do not acknowledge the covenant with Abraham and his descendants. Muslims claim to be a part of the descendants of Abraham and claim to be a follower of the same religion that Abraham followed. The Quran challenged the Jews and Christians by telling them to follow Abraham because he was neither Jew or Christian, but he worshiped THE GOD and made a covenant with God for himself and his descendants. "apes" is meant to be symbolic, meaning that their nature became like those of frustrated and angry apes .... Why not reveal to a 'desert pagan' when He revealed Himself to a poor shepard and carpenter who too has ancestry in paganism. Were not the fathers of Abraham worshipers of idols? Its not about 'forfathers' in Islam, its about the guidance of God and submission to what is right. This life is a life of trials and tribulations, to test the faith and sincerity in man. Why send prophets and messengers instead of coming to earth on multiple occasions? What need is there of prophets whem God can come to earth Himself? Why doesnt God visit us on earth often? Whats there to hide? God does not reveal His physical appearance upon earth for a reason. There are only spokepersons and prophets. This is a part of the philisophical purpose God has created, and also deals with trials and tribualtions. Can you believe and have faith in something that your 5 senses fail to detect? Without the revelation how would we know God and His will? We need to know what God wants in order to submit to Him, otherwise there would be no sumbission to Him because we would fail to recognize His will. Thus we find out through revelation what the will of God is and we submit to it. When I say religion I mean man-made religion and man-interpreted doctrines and ideas and a belief system created by man to follow these doctrines and ideas - on the other hand a divine principle is the requirement of God or the purpose of our very lives. My point initially was that "Judaism" and "Christianity" were not divine principles but man-made religions who do not invite to the will of God rather to a religious cause. The institution of every religion is by man, but there's a difference between man-made religions and a way of life prescribed by the prophets and God Himself. Let me show you what I mean. Did any of the Hebrew prophets ever claim to be founders of any religion? Moses? Abraham? Noah? David? John? Jesus? These individuals never claimed to be the founder of any religion, and neither is God the author of any religion. If God was the author and founder of any religion, it would have to be universal and perfect and furthermore God would claim it. Islam is universal and perfect because all of the prophets and believers are submitters to God. Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed all came to deliver the same message and the same purpose for man. Submit to God. Let me give you the following reasons as to why Islam is not a 'religion' like Judaism, Christianity, Catholicism etc. 1. Prophet Mohammed did not claim to be the founder of Islam. 2. The Quran never calls Islam a religion (madhab) rather a "way" (deen). 3. Submission - Islam is NOT limited to mankind alone, rather everything in nature and in the universe submits to the command of God - man was initially said to be created with the purpose of being among those who submit (Muslims) and thus all are born Muslim - but later choose to submit or not to submit. (no compulsion in religion) 4. Islam and Muslim are arabic terms not to be used as labels but as desriotive words. God also calls Muslims by another word in the Quran - Mo'min (believers). 5. Islam is the only religion which claims to be the one and only religion of God since the beginning of creation, because obviously Judaism and Christiantiy are religions that can not claim such. haha. When I said perfect I meant that everything perfectly follows the commands of God without any error. For example night and day, evaporation and precipitation, consuming and wasting food, the four seasons etc. etc. These are created to follow the commands of God with no choice. Man, however who was given an intellect and free-will was to be tested on submission rather then there being compulsion to follow. The will of God may have varied from time to time and God gave different requirements for specific time periods, situations and for specific people, but the concept of submitting to God and His will has never changed. Regardless of the will of God altering to fit God's plans, the concept of submitting to Him has always been the same. So initially islam always existed, and revelation elaborated on the will of God. Enlighten me. I can glorify and praise God all day and all night, but if I fail to submit to Him I would become a hypocrite in my glorification and worship of Him. The biggest glory comes not through words but actions. Actions mean that we are physically or emotionally doing something in submission to His will. Don't you see, any actions or deed we do we do it because its what God wants. What God wants is 'His Will' and we submit to that. So if God's will is to follow the Quran or pray 5 times a day etc. etc., then by praying 5 times a day and following the Quran we are submitting to Him and His will. The 5 pillars of Islam, notice that they start off with the declaration of faith - a statement which declares faith in the existance of THE GOD and in His message brought to man through His messenger. After this declaration of FAITH - the following four are actions to prove the sincerity to that declaration. When we follow a commandment of God, or when we do something God tells us to do in the Quran - ie. pray 5 times a day - then we are submitting to His will. This is what a Muslims is - one who submits or one who surrenders. Thats what I explained. Read this statement of mine: This is why we need to follow the Quran. Everything God ever revealed promoted the concept of submission to Him and His will. All revelations, whether it was to Abraham or Moses or to Jesus, it was all because God wanted us to do His will - ie. submit to it. Islam was not revealed to prophet Mohammed only rather to all prophets, even Abraham. Remember don't stick with the arabic term, understand its meaning which is submission. The Quran which I believe is the word and revelation from God does infact tell us to follow the religion/deen/way/principle of Abraham, so thats why I believe in Abraham as a prophet because the Quran explains who he was. I don't believe that the "bible" is a revealed book. The bible is a compiled and canonized book by authorities like king james and other men. While I don't believe in the accuracy of the bible which contains particles of truth simply because it is narration of what was witnessed and heard rather than revelation. I don't consider narrations and hearsay to be 100% reliable. You're right it boils down to what is the word of God, and where is the will of God inscribed. Bible or Quran? However staying off this topic, I remind you how I have claimed that Christianity is a man-made religion, its not even biblical - meaning the institution and labeling of. Its because of Islam that we recognize the difference between a religion which was formed and institutionalized and labeled by man from a divine principle required by the will of God. This is what makes Islam unique. The first is a statement of Peter, the second of Paul. In the second statement we don't even know what Paul considers scripture. His own epistles? The writings of the apostles? The Hebrew Tanach? What? Plus there is a difference between something inspired of God and something revealed by God. God spoke to Moses face to face, through a burning bush, God walked with Noah, he heard the voice of God, Abraham made a covenant with God through contact not through some Holy Ghost which moved him. Don't you see the difference? Show me from the OT somewhere where the Holy Ghost has moved someone to write something? The prophets of God followed what God told them to do. God told Moses to go to Egypt. God told Jesus to face the Jews and Romans. God told Noah to build and arch. God told Abraham about the covenant. These are the prophet of God. Mark Luke and Paul did not do these things. |
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