Trinity DebateJesus as the embodied pre-existent SonOnce again you have shown that you are not interested in discussing specifics. Your explanation of Philippians 2 has already been refuted with the meaning of "morphe" in Koine Greek, which you have not addressed. What evidence do you have that Clement and Origen used vernacular or slang Greek otherwise known as Koine in their writings? The fact is you don't have any. Jesus who has the external appearance of God (God created man in His image), took on the external appearance of a bond-servant does not establish the preexistence of the Lord. Those who try to compare the birth/death/resurrection of the Lord with the Isis/Osiris/Horus myths and there othe pagan counterparts ignore the fact that both Isis and Osiris were gods. Mary was not a goddess, so the comparison is both superficial and lame. So once again you are trying to obfuscate this thread. Reading a verse and understanding a verse are not the same thing. You need to come up with a better explanation. God said He is not a man or the son of man and Jesus' favorite title for Himself was "Son of Man", which is the same way God the Father addressed the prophet Ezekiel, which only adds weight to Moses prophesy concerning a prophet like him who God would raise up in Israel and God is not a prophet like Moses. 2 Corinthians 13:13 does not refer to the Lord Jesus Christ as the Lord God Jesus Christ. The word "kurios" does not equate to the person addressed as "kurios" is God. This was discussed on another thread you contributed to so I will not go into this again. Also Matthew 28:19 does not read "names" indicating a compound unity, it reads "name". So unless you suddenly converted to the UPC your appeal to that verse is ludicrous since the Father's name is Yehovah, the Son's name is Yehoshuah (God is salvation), and the Holy Spirit does not have a name other than Holy Spirit. Now when are you going to address these: Exodus 3:14-15 14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" 15 And God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations. NAS Deuteronomy 6:4 4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! NAS John 17:3 3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent. NAS 1 st Corinthians 8:5-6 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NAS Ephesians 4:4-8 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. 8 Therefore it says, NAS 1 st Timothy 2:5-6 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time. NAS The preexistence of Jesus as God is not taught in Scripture, this concept was developed by Greeks starting with Justin Martyr who was not a Trinitarian (he was a binitarian) and further developed by Origen and declared doctrine at the First Council of Nicea. |
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