Consistent with the nominal Muslim style, your multiple posts are nearly entirely comprised of more excuses.

You seem to enjoy pulling-out excuse after excuse.

Not one, not two, but three separate posts.

What’s the matter….the subject matter bothering you…?

We are not impressed with excuses.

Show your work.

Not the work of others.


However….it is rather amusing to watch you jump from one “googled” website to another “googled website in hopes of finally landing on one that actually shows a valid exegesis…




Further, you seem to want to make an issue out of the following…

fdjohan wrote: With google, people can see my references. You, you hide your references. So people can't critisize you when you made mistake.

The above statement is patently false.

Our references have always been shown, complete with the possible definitions, concordances, comparisons, and page numbers.

Don’t blame us if you are too lazy to do the same, much less actually verify the material for yourself.

After all, you are an admitted plagiarist.

Having your own CD ROM doesn't mean you are smart Apple.
Hmm..I think you can surf faster if you have a CD ROM. Cut and paste from CD ROM is much faster.

What makes you think that we have Lane’s Lexicon on CDROM…?

The CD text is lithography, and cannot be copied from. Strike # 1.

Also, the CD lithography does not contain page numbers. Our references contain page numbers. Strike #2.

Thus, you have once again amply demonstrated your “googled” ignorance for us all to see. :roll:

E.W. Lane Doesn't prove himself as a high quality one. He doesn't know about "SHE CAMEL" in Arabic. He failed about the word ISRA in verse 4.

If you feel this way regarding Lane’s Lexicon, then, by all means, bring forth your “googled” material that specifically denounces Lane.
If you can’t do this, then you have no argument…..again…

You use this one:
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar

I will use this one:
The Easy Dictionary of the Qur’aan, Compiled By Shaikh AbdulKarim Parekh Translated By (Late) AbdurRasheed Kamptee Dr. Abdulazeez Abdulraheem Shaikh AbdulGhafoor Parekh .

But I will let people to see it together. Please download:
http://www.emuslim.com/Quran/Dictionary ... /set-8.pdf

Your “googled” website doesn’t even show the correct wordالْعِشَارُ

Furthermore, it shows no Lexical references whatsoever.

None.

Zero.

Zippo.

It simply regurgitates the Islamic mindset without demonstrating how it arrived at the “pregnant camel” rendering.

You can do better than this…..can’t you…?

“Google” some more…


In addition….you once again failed to mention anything regarding the next word عُطِّلَتْ


The definition, once again…


عُطِّلَتْ = “uttilat”

“uttilat” definition:

Feminine singular. Said of a woman, she had not upon her any woman’s ornaments; and wore not any ornature, or decoration: or her neck was destitute of necklaces or the like. Said of lands of seed-produce as meaning they were left uncultivated. Abandoned. It comes from the root “atila”, which means to be without care, be abandoned and not to be used; the denuded, or unclad, part, or parts, of the body. The body, or person; particularly, as some say, of a human being; the neck; the beauty of body; a stalk of a raceme of a palm tree. Applied to a woman, having no woman’s ornaments upon her; or whose neck is destitute of necklaces or the like.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume five, pp. 2082 - 2083
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 378


Occurrences of “uttilat” in the Koran: 1
Location: 81.4

Occurrences of the root “atila” and its 2 forms in the Koran: 2
Locations: 22.45, 81.4


Observe that the usage of the root derivative “muAAattalatin”, in 22.45, pertains to the destruction and destitution of a city…just as it does in 81.4…



As you can clearly see, “uttilat” references a woman.

Not a pregnant camel….!


Now…..turn your head…..and pretend that we said nothing….

=====================
Let's talk about verse 8 and 9

About verse 8,
Apple Pie version:
وَإِذَا الْمَوْؤُودَةُ سُئِلَتْ

Wa-itha almawoodatu su-ilat

81.8 And when she is questioned about the sound
Quote:
this is his exegesis

Feminine singular. A sound, or noise; absolutely: or a loud sound or noise: as that of a wall falling, and the like. The sound occasioned by vehement or heavy treading of the ground: the heavy sound of feet of camels. The braying of a camel. A daughter buried alive; a damsel buried alive; buried alive. Moderation; gentleness; deliberateness; a leisurely manner of proceeding, or of deportment; contrary of hastiness: and gravity; staidness; sedateness; calmness. It comes from the root “wa’ada”, which means he buried his daughter alive in the grave, and put a load of dirt upon her; to bury alive.


He gave us wrong traslation and tafsir.

Actually, we gave all of the possible classic definitions.

But, then again….how would you even know…?

Classic Arabic is not worthy of your time.


Also….thanks for conveniently forgetting to list the references and page numbers that we have for this definition…nice touch….maybe you were hoping that your out-of-context quote would somehow line up with your earlier false statements…

Indeed SOUND is one of the list, but you can't pick it because that not related to the time of the Prophet(saw).

Thanks for acknowledging that our references are valid.

Quote:
In the old days in Arabia, before Muhammad became a prophet, there was a widespread practice of burying babies alive- especially baby girls. Later, Muhammad put a stop to this. The Holy Quran contains a verse that says babies buried alive will call out a question on Judgment Day, before God's eternal tribunal of justice, asking what sin they had committed to warrant being buried alive.


And this
http://www.islamawareness.net/Muhammed/saw.html
Quote:
Most of the Arabs at that time were illiterate and drenched in pagan practices. The society was oppressive and full of vice. Women had no place in society. They did not inherit any wealth, and were used by the men merely for their pleasure. In fact, upon the death of a man, his sons used to inherit all of his wives as well along with his wealth. Birth of girls in a family was considered to be a curse, and below the dignity of the family. Thus, the "honourable" Arabs used to bury their new born baby girls alive. The Arabs used to indulge excessively in wine, gambling and poetry. Having mastery over the language was considered to be one of the greatest pastimes. And the best form was poetic.


Daniel Pipes the Anti-Islam tells about it

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/27745
Quote:
If your God is defined beyond the shape then why do you bother if someone calls "rubbish" for Arab idols? Of course they were RUBBISH stones that had no functions. Unbelievable, at 21st century, someone finds a connection between him/herself and those pagan Arabs who were burying baby girls as alive. You didn't know this, did you? Theological discussions also require good historical knowledge. Not easy, indeed.


So picking "SOUND" to interpret this verse is dead wrong.

Interestingly, not a single solitary one of your “googled” sources even so much as shows ANY Lexical rational for why they rendered this ayah as they did.

Please tell us why this is?

Afraid to show their work?

Obviously.

From: The Easy Dictionary of the Qur’aan, Compiled By Shaikh AbdulKarim Parekh Translated By (Late) AbdurRasheed Kamptee Dr. Abdulazeez Abdulraheem Shaikh AbdulGhafoor Parekh .

Download here:
http://www.emuslim.com/Quran/Dictionary ... /set-8.pdf



Three translator translated it:

081.008
YUSUFALI: When the female (infant), buried alive, is questioned -
PICKTHAL: And when the girl-child that was buried alive is asked
SHAKIR: And when the female infant buried alive is asked

They picked female infant buried alive because it regarding baby girl buried alive in time of pagans.

Please show us the Lexical references of these “popular” English renderings.

Can you do that…?

Nope.

Ibn Katsir explain more:
Quote:
Allah says,

[وَإِذَا الْمَوْءُودَةُ سُئِلَتْ - بِأَىِّ ذَنبٍ قُتِلَتْ ]

(And when the female infant (Al-Maw'udah) buried alive is questioned: For what sin was she killed)

The majority have recited it as Su'ilat (she is questioned), as it is here. Al-Maw'udah is the female infant that the people of the pre-Islamic time of ignorance would bury in the dirt due to their hatred of girls. Therefore, on the Day of Judgement, the female infant will be asked what sin she committed that caused here to be murdered. This will be a means of frightening her murderer. For verily, if the one who was wronged is questioned, what does the wrongdoer (the one who is guilty of the oppression) think then `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said,


So Apple Pie is DEAD wrong. This is not about the exegesis anymore, but the science of verses.
Verse 8 of At-Takweer, nothing to do with Revelation 6.

Again…where is the work?

All you can do is paste–in editorialization.

Nothing to validate, as no reasoning is shown.

Only the opinion of the author.


Please show us the explanation for the copulative junction “wa” which couples this ayah to the ones in front of it.

====
Verse 9 is the continuity of verse 8. And Apple Pie never think about it.
081.009
YUSUFALI: For what crime she was killed;
PICKTHAL: For what sin she was slain,
SHAKIR: For what sin she was killed,

SHE in this case is a BABY GIRL who buried alive.

A “baby girl”….?
:roll:
Please inform us of the Arabic word that is rendered as “baby girl”.

Good luck.

Verse 8 and 9 are RELATED. This one is missed by Apple Pie.

Of course they are related.

You have already known this had you actually read our exgesis before being consumed with blind rage.

Keep turning that head of yours….

Explanation from Ibn Katsir:
Quote:
`Abdur-Razzaq said that Isra'il informed them from Simak bin Harb, from An-Nu`man bin Bashir, who reported from `Umar bin Al-Khattab that he said concerning Allah's statement,

[وَإِذَا الْمَوْءُودَةُ سُئِلَتْ ]

(And when the female infant buried alive is questioned.)

"Qays bin `Asim came to the Messenger of Allah and said, `O Messenger of Allah! Verily, I buried some daughters of mine alive in the period of pre-Islamic ignorance.' The Messenger of Allah said,

«أَعْتِقْ عَنْ كُلِّ وَاحِدَةٍ مِنْهُنَّ رَقَبَة»

(Free a slave for each one of them.)

Then Qays said, `O Messenger of Allah! Verily, I am an owner of camels.' The Prophet said,

«فَانْحَرْ عَنْ كُلِّ وَاحِدَةٍ مِنْهُنَّ بَدَنَة»

(Then sacrifice a camel for each one of them.)''


Muhammad Assad added:
Quote:
for what crime she had been slain,*

* The barbaric custom of burying female infants alive seems to have been fairly widespread in pre-Islamic Arabia, although perhaps not to the extent as has been commonly assumed. The motives were twofold: the fear that an increase of female offspring would result in economic burdens, as well as fear of the humiliation frequently caused by girls being captured by a hostile tribe and subsequently preferring their captors to their parents and brothers. Before Islam, one of the foremost opponents of this custom was Zayd ibn Amr ibn Nufayl, a cousin of Umar ibn al-Khattab and spiritually a precursor of Muhammad (cf. Bukhari, Fada'il Ashab an-Nabi on the authority of Abd Allah ibn Umar); he died shortly before Muhammad's call to prophethood (Fath al-Bari VII, 112). Another man, Sa‘sa‘ah ibn Najiyah at-Tamimi - grandfather of the poet Farazdaq - achieved equal fame as a saviour of infants thus condemned to death; he later embraced Islam. Ibn Khallikan (II, 197) mentions that Sa‘sa‘ah saved about thirty girls by paying ransom to their parents.


Verse 8 and 9 of At Takwir are nothing to do with Revelation 6.

STAND ALONE EXEGESIS IS LAME WITHOUT THE BACKGROUND OF THE RELATED VERSES.

Salaam

Again….where does the author show his work…?

He does not even show one single solitary classic definition for any of his work.

Oppps….looks like you forgot to mention this word…

ذَنبٍ = “thanbin”

“thanbin” definition:

Singular noun. The tail, in relation to a horse or of any other creature. Anything resembling a tail. The extremity of a whip; and of an unripe date, and of any date, the hinder part; the part next to the base and stalk; the outer extremity of the eye, next the temple; the end; or latter part, of anything; the followers or dependents of a man. The rudder of a ship or boat. Said of the locust, it stuck its tail into the ground to lay its eggs: or said of a lizard, and of the locust, it desired to copulate, or to lay eggs, and therefore stuck its tail into the ground: or said of the lizard, it signifies only it struck with its tail a hunter or serpent desiring to catch it; or said of the lizard, it signifies also it put forth its tail from the nearest part of its hole, having its head within it, as it does in hot weather, or when an attempt was made to catch it: or it put its tail foremost in coming forth from its hole. A sin, a crime, a fault, a misdemeanor, a misdeed, an unlawful deed, an offense, a transgression, or an act of disobedience; either intentional or committed through inadvertence; or a thing that precludes one from the favor of God: or a thing for which he is blamable who does it intentionally; sin; any act having an evil result. It comes from the root “dhanaba”, which means he followed his tail, not quitting his track: and hence, tropically, he followed him (in any case), not quitting his track; to track, make a tail, add appendix, follow closely, become spotted.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume three, pp. 979 - 982
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 192

Occurrences of “thanbin” in the Koran: 2
Locations: 26.14, 81.9

Occurrences of the root “dhanaba” and its 18 forms in the Koran: 39
Locations: 3.11, 3.16, 3.31, 3.135(2x), 3.147, 3.193, 5.18, 5.49, 6.6, 7.100, 8.52, 8.54, 9.102, 12.29, 12.97, 14.10, 17.17, 25.58, 26.14, 28.78, 29.40, 33.71, 39.53, 40.3, 40.11, 40.21, 40.55, 46.31, 47.19, 48.2, 51.59(2x), 55.39, 61.12, 67.11, 71.4, 81.9, 91.14


It’s not looking too good for the “baby girl” who has a tail…!

What should we expect when you want to render a woman as a pregnant camel…!

BISMILLAHIRRAHMAANIRRAHIIM

So many questions appear.

For verse 10 and 11 Apple still use revelation 6
And when he face verse 12, he pushes too hard.

Now he jumped to Rev. 19
Quote:
Rev 19.20 And the beast was seized, and with this one the false prophet doing signs before it, by which he led astray those having received the mark of the beast, and those worshiping its image. The two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone.


Jumped to Rev. 20
Quote:
Rev 20.10 And the Devil leading them astray was thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were. And they were tormented day and night to


Rev 20.14 And death and hell were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20.15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire.


And there you are. Rev 21
Quote:
Rev 21.8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving, and those having become foul, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the lying ones, their part will be in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


1. Four of the verses talk about thrown into....
One of them using other version "their part will be in "... which is nothing different as the previous four.

2. These words :
Lake of Fire burning with brimstone.
Lake of Fire and Brimstone,
Lake of Fire.
the Lake of Fire,
Lake burning with fire and brimstone,

What are those got to do with:

081.012
YUSUFALI: When the Blazing Fire is kindled to fierce heat;
PICKTHAL: And when hell is lighted,
SHAKIR: And when the hell is kindled up,

Not even a single sign of thrown into....
Over all samples describing bad people will be thrown to the lake of fire.

Verse 12 telling you how ALLAH set ablaze the HELL in the judgement day.
SAME? No.

All of those samples way different. Apple Pie is having fun with his own NT, but he forget that people still got brain in their head.

Perhaps you need to actually read our exegesis before making a reply to it…



Summary of 81.12:

• The Book of Revelation dictates Koranic Eschatology
• 81.12 begins with “wa-itha”, which is a continuation of 81.11, and can be rendered as “remember the time”…hence the information contained in this ayah also existed prior to it being penned in Arabic
• Revelation tells us that all disbelievers will reside in the lake of “pur”, or fire, and “theion”, or brimstone
• 81.12 informs us that “jaheemu”, or the fire, will have many live coals
• Revelation describes the Lake of Fire as “kaio”, or being set on fire; or kindled
• In like fashion, 81.12 mentions it as “suAAAAirat”, or is set ablaze, from the root “sa’ara”, which means to light or kindle a fire
• Revelation tells us that “hades”, or hell, will be thrown into the fire
• Similarly, 81.12 tells us that “jaheemu” refers to Gehenna, or hell, and that it will be set ablaze
• It is beyond reasonable doubt that 81.12 directly refers to the Biblical Lake of Fire as mentioned in the Book of Revelation

What a creative Muslim picking verses here and there just to tell the things about judgement day.
Irrational claim Apple Pie...Irrational claim Apple Pie...

So who dictates what?

Koranic Eschatology is entirely copied from the book of Revelation.

There can be no doubt.

But…then again…how would you know…as you never take the time to study what you “believe” in…

Have fun with your “baby girl” with a tail…and your “pregnant camel” woman…