Truth Seeker-Joshua wrote:Saying I dont care about the persecution of pagan actions in this world, and equating it to caring nothing for your opinions, is a broad stereotype.
I don't think so. If I were to tell you that I don't care if Christians are being persecuted, I'm attacking your opinions of your Faith and saying that because you hold those opinions, your treatment in other areas of life is irrelevant. For the record, I *do* care if Christians are being persecuted - however it's difficult for me to feel sorry for anyone that is getting the same treatment as any other person. Christians are recieving the same treatment - read that again - the SAME treatment as those of other faiths. I care when people lose their rights - I don't care what faith, race, gender they are. Treating one religious group above another is *wrong*, just as treating one gender above another or one race above another.
Truth Seeker-Joshua wrote:Well then your a hell of a guy. Because most pagans I know would tell me I'm a flippin idiot.
Hmm...well, thanks I guess. I know plenty of Pagans though that would have no problem with it...perhaps it's in your approach?
Truth Seeker-Joshua wrote:I took this up with my father; a retired police cheif. The whole "protect and serve" aspect is broadened from popular shows like law & order or nypd blue.
A police officer's job is the protection of an areas citizens and their personal properties, and to solve crimes. Not protecting private properties and private assets of corporations. (If you dont believe me, next time your in Michigan, get into a fender bender in wal-mart parking lot, then call the police. The dispacther will tell you that police do not respond to traffic accidents (without injury) or vandalism of private commercial properties. They must meet with the management of the property owner to file paper work).
Truth Seeker-Joshua wrote:The whole state trooper thing is the same situation as our soliders in iraq. They have a mission as set forth by the government. Yet that mission does not include the protection of oil field pumps, even though they are at risk of being damaged by insurgants, and workers losing their lives. The US government has contracted private security companies to secure oil fields. The mission of the soliders are more important than protecting oil fields, just a the troopers job is more important than protecting a casino and it's patrons.
Truth Seeker-Joshua wrote:
I stand corrected - he should not have lost his job (for the reasons you state above). It smells to me like the Government had some money tied up in the Casino and was trying to throw their weight around. Although, I would have to hear more about the situation to know for sure - it sounds like he was getting screwed. However, I will say that he probably would have recieved the same punishment regardless of his reasons for not doing the job. Had he been Pagan or an Athiest and still determined that that was not what he wanted to do (for whatever the reason) I would argue that his job would have been in jeopardy regardless. Which means this is not a Christian being persecuted, it's a cop being run through the wringer. It's not good, but neither is it Christian specific.
Truth Seeker-Joshua wrote:And I would say in my opinion, that for every one non-Christian that commits a good deed, there are a thousand more trying to take advantage of someone or ruining someone's life.
Welcome to human nature. Claiming that Christianity has some sort of Moral High Ground that they can stand on is complete BS - if only because if one Christian commits a despicable act the claim is that they must not be Christian. That's like saying that every animal that walks through the woods is a bear, and as soon as someone sees a raccoon they declare that it's not an animal...
Truth Seeker-Joshua wrote:Fancy footwork their. Im not close minded, and Im not talking about evolution. I was talking about scientific evidence as to the age of original religous texts that are currently available in the world.
And I was talking about your claims of fact that puts you on such a higher ground than those that are not Christian. You have the gaul to claim that my religion is not real - which I am fully willing to accept provided that someone can give me proof - and then you claim that yours IS real and nobody has any right to tell you you're wrong. My statement stems from the fact that Christians (for the most part) are perfectly willing to accept scientific data as long as it supports their claims, however if it doesn't fit into what they consider "truth" it's denied as "bad science". It's a debate that will go nowhere and will only confuse the issue. The issue (the reason this thread exists) is - why is it that some Christians feel they have the right to tell non-Christians how to live their personal lives (I'm still working on the wording of it, but I'm certain you get the point). When you claim that non-Christians can't possibly understand the difference between right and wrong because they aren't Christians, you are claiming that your Faith teaches you something that other ways of life can and will not teach - and you claim that as fact. If you are claiming fact, I'm asking that you support it. If you're claiming believe than claim it as that, however your opinion is no better or worse than my own.
Truth Seeker-Joshua wrote:Prove it prove it prove it prove it.................... :roll:
I get so tired of hearing this. I have said several times that you can't prove faith.
I believe you were the first person to confuse religion with fact in this thread. And you were also the first asking for proof of religion. I'm simply turning around and asking you to do what you know is impossible, yet asking for others to do.
Truth Seeker-Joshua wrote:Well you obviously skimmed my post, because if your read question 2 again, it says:
Where, in any of my posts did I say my religoin is fact. It is my belief and faith. My faith is fact in my heart. Just as your faith is fact in your heart. (or your concience, as you put it.)
Oh, the semantics game. How about we make a rule to not confuse fact and belief? I have been extremely careful to state what I believe as a belief, and have not *once* told you that your religion was wrong. I have also not implied that your opinion did not count - only that you clarify when the topic has gotten muddled.
Truth Seeker-Joshua wrote:Those who believe in something, should be able to prove what they are believing in. Not ask others to prove that it doesn't exist.
Ok, then PROVE that Jesus is the Son of God. Prove his divinity. You're saying (in the above statement) that there's no reason you would not be able to prove it. I disagree, since if that were even possible the world would not be full of Pagans, Athiests, Agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists. It would be full of Christians, which while the numbers are high, it's not even a majority.
I believe what I believe and I know that I can't prove it. I don't *claim* that I can prove it. I simply admit that other people have different faiths than my own and
that they are entitled to them. This is where I have a problem with the Christians Fundamentalist perception - it's that "I'm right, and you're wrong, and I don't need to back it up with anything."
Tomorrow, if you're still confused on the issue, I will go back through the threads (if I have time) and show you how the things that you've said have come off - perhaps then you'll understand where I'm coming from.