Apologetics Forum: Ask questions about Christianity/Debate doctrinesCatholicismAieno Wrote: "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven." 1 Cor 11:5 1 Corinthians 14:34 is not commanding women to be absolutely silent in the church all the time. It is only saying that women should not participate in the actual service, they cannot conduct the church service. If they are to be silent and under authority of men, how do you expect them to be priests? This is in agreement with 1 Timothy 2:11-12 "A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet". 1 Timothy 2:11-12 says that women should not teach or have authority over men. Priests both teach and have authority over all in the church, hence why a women can not be ordianed to the priesthood. Aieno Wrote: First Peter 2 indicates that all Christians are priests, but not ministerial priests. The ordained ministers of the New Covenant are called apostles (cf. Eph. 4:11), elders (Jas. 5:14), bishops (1 Tim. 3:1), and deacons (1 Tim. 3:8ff). They are not referred to directly with the typical Greek word for "priest," which is hiereus. So you see Aieno, your whole argument just fell apart. Aieno Wrote: Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." I would like to note that Jesus breathes on his disciples. This is the second time in all history that God breathes on man. "For which is easier, to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Rise and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins"-he then said to the paralytic-"Rise, take up your bed and go home." And he rose and went home. When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men". Leviticus 5:5-6: "When a man is guilty in any of these [sins], he shall confess the sin he has committed, and he shall bring his guilt offering to the Lord for the sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin". James 5:14-16: "Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects". 2 Cor. 5:17-20: "Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God". Confession is very important for our spiritual life. The Bible teaches it, and it also follows from simple logic. Aieno Wrote: Jesus is not speaking about His Flesh ("My Flesh"), in verse 63 but "the flesh" which is very different and which is missed by many Protestants, like you. When you claim "My flesh" profits nothing, you claim way too much! you are claiming that the Incarnation of Jesus in the flesh and the bodily resurrection has no profit. What Jesus means by ""the flesh profits nothing" is simple because he uses the phrase again in John 8:15, let the Bible interpret the Bible "You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one." (John 8:15) When Jesus uses the phrase "the flesh" he is referring to human understanding apart from divine revelation. You judge the Eucharist by human standards. It "Looks like bread" and it "tastes like bread" therefore "it must be bread". This statement of Jesus affirms what he has said about eating his Flesh and drinking his Blood and tells us it is a great mystery. With these words Jesus castigates the unbelieving Protestants along with the unbelieving Jews for judging spiritual things with earthly minds "by the flesh" and failing to understand the deep mysteries of God in the Eucharist. And by the way, this “symbol only“ mentality about Scripture and this passage in particular is only as old as the Protestant Reformation. From the beginning of the Church Christians have understood that Jesus was speaking of his Flesh and Blood in the Eucharist after all Jesus did not say, “This represents my body.“ he said “This is My Body!“ Why do you want to erase the words of Jesus or add to them your own interpretation? Too bad the mystery goes right over your head. Aieno Wrote: When Abraham was buying a burial site for Sarah, he “bowed himself to the people of the land, even to the children of Heth” (Genesis 23:7) (Gen 27:29; 33:3-7; 37:10; 41:43; 42:6; 43:26; 47:31; 48:12; 49:8; Ruth 2:10; 1 Sam 20:41; 24:8; 25:23, 41; 28:14; 2 Sam 9:8; 14:22, 33; 18:21; 24:20; 1 Kings 1:15, 23 (obeisance), 31(reverence), 47, 53; 2:19; 2 Kings 2:15; 4:37; 1 Chr 21:21; Est 3:2 (reverence); Isa 60:14). Unless there is an internal bowing down in the heart, bowing down and kissing are not worship. The essence of worship, then, is nothing outward. Your argument holds no water. Aieno Wrote: God in human form (flesh) did have a mother, and that was Mary. A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses. I suggest you keep your Nestorian beliefs to yourself. If you deny that Mary is God’s mother you imply doubt about Jesus’ divinity, I have no doubt that Jesus Is God. The Trinity is biblical, you go against the Word of God by denying it. Aieno Wrote: That is my point. If a Greek word for "brother" is available (adelfos), then why did the Jewish scribes who tranlated the greek septuagint, translate Lot as Abrams "brother" (Genesis 14:12,14) using the word "adelphos" instead of the word "adelfos"? Because we know that Abram is the uncle of Lot (Genesis 11:26) NOT his brother. You claim that the word "adelphos" is only used for a "biological child from the same womb"? That is incorrect. Here is the greek version from the Septuagint that was translated by Jewish scholars about a century before Jesus'. akousas de abram hoti Echmalwteutai lwt ho adelphos autou ErithmEsen tous idious oikogeneis autou triakosious deka kai oktw kai katediwxen opisw autwn hews dan Genesis 14:14 Your argument is ludicrous. |
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