Aieno Wrote:

What does the number of disciples have to do with what Jesus said in John 20? The 120 included men who did not become priests and women. By using this verse you show the Catholic Church is being a bit hypocritical with your sacrament of confession being only through a priest and then excluding women from the priesthood. This verse does not mean men can forgive sins.

Women can publicly pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:1–16)

Women can not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:11–14)

These are two essential functions of the clergy.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." 1 Cor. 14:34–38

Women should not publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy. If women are not permitted to speak in church, how do you expect the Catholic Church to ordian them priests? Do you want silent priests?

women do play an active role in the Church, but these women are not ordained.

Aieno Wrote:

Who is the One who is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness? God, and God alone.

So how can men retain the sins of others? By not preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ so those who believe are forgiven of their sins.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).

"glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men").

After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his apostels, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23).

Confession was not just something done in silence to God alone, but something done "in church," as the Didache (A.D. 70) indicates.

Aieno Wrote:

As to images your response is contradictory and ignores the purpose of the Ark of the Covenant. First you appeal to the cherubim on the ark and the brazen serpent and then you appeal to the 10 commandments which includes this:

In the early Church Statues/images they were useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus in Sunday school for teaching children. I wonder Aieno, do you have pictures of family or friends? If one measured you by the same rule, then by using these "graven" images, you would be practicing the "idolatry" of which you accuse us Catholics.

God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the use of them in religious services. It is only when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus when people did start to worship the bronze serpent as a god "Nehushtan", the king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4).

Aieno Wrote:

I dealt with the Eucharist on the other thread. God prohibited the Jews from eating blood and the Council of Jerusalem affirmed this prohibition in Acts 15. Jesus died (was sacrificed) once for all and the Eucharist is a travesty of His once for all sacrifice.

Jesus first repeated what he said, then summarized: "‘I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’" (John 6:51–52).

What was Jesus' reply?

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).

Lev. 17:11,14 - in the Old Testament, we see that the life of the flesh is the blood which could never be drunk. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ's blood is the source of new life, and now must be drunk.

Catholics do NOT re-crucify Jesus in the mass, it is a memorial meal, whereby Christians throughout all ages would remember and give thanks for the "once and for all" sacrifice of Calvary. However, the word for remembrance in Greek is anamnesis, which means a remembering that makes something past become present.

Aieno Wrote:

Mary is to Catholicism what Isis is to Egyptian mythology. You could have walked into any temple dedicated to Isis and have seen an idol of her holding her infant Horus. The concept of Mary as the mother of God came out of Alexandria Egypt.

Did it now? What about the concept of the following various attributes given to Jesus?

Goddesses such as Aphrodite, Astarte, Cybele, Demeter, Hathor, Inanna, Ishtar and Isis, Mary is "both virgin and mother, and, like many of them, she gives birth to a half-human, half-divine child, who dies and is reborn.

Zeus, Father of the gods, visited Semele…in the form of a thunderstorm; and she gave birth to the great saviour and deliverer Dionysus.

Devaki, the radiant Virgin of the Hindu mythology, became the wife of the god Vishnu and bore Krishna, the beloved hero was he a prototype of Christ?

Teutonic goddess Hertha (the Earth) was a Virgin, but was impregnated by the heavenly Spirit (the Sky); and her image with a child in her arms.

The Scandinavian Frigga, in much the same way, being caught in the embraces of Odin, the All-father, conceived and bore a son, the blessed Balder, healer and saviour of mankind.

Quetzalcoatl, the (crucified) saviour of the Aztecs, was the son of Chimalman, the Virgin Queen of Heaven.

The Chinese had a mother-goddess and virgin with child in her arms; and so did the ancient Etruscans.

What about the story of the death and resurrection of Osiris? Did he have influence on the thought of the earliest Christians in regard to the death and resurrection of our Jesus?

Attis was the Good Shepherd, the son of Cybele, the Great Mother, or alternatively, of the Virgin Nana, who conceived him without union with mortal man.

The pre-Christian virgin goddess Myrrha was the mother of the god Adonis, who tradition holds was born at Bethlehem.

The Indian avatar Buddha's conception is portrayed as coming to his mother, Maya, in a dream, similar to the gospel story of Joseph's dream.

Regarding Buddha, in Christianity Before Christ (87) John Jackson states:

He was said to have been born of the Virgin Maya, or Mary. His incarnation was accomplished by the descent of the Holy Ghost upon the Virgin Maya. The infant Buddha, soon after birth, spoke to his mother, saying: "I will put to an end to the sufferings and sorrows of the world." As these words are uttered, a mystical light surrounded the infant Messiah.

Shall we abandon the virgin birth, death and ressurection of Jesus because some mythological gods have similar storys?

Using your arugument Christianity was formed from pagan mythology, using myth storys applied into the life of Jesus.

Aieno Wrote:

The ark contained the tablets with only the 10 commandments inscribed on them, not the whole word of God, so you analogy is both fallacious and idiotic. Mary and Joseph had other children after Jesus was born.

John 19:26-27
"When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, "Woman, behold thy son!" Then saith he to the disciple, "Behold thy mother!" And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. "

If Jesus had brothers and sisters, there would be no need to put His mother under the care of John. If we assume Jesus had no siblings, the way He provided for the care of His mother makes perfect sense.

Mark 6:3
"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us?" And they were offended at him."

First, please note that James, Joses, Juda, and Simon are called the brothers of Jesus, not the sons of Mary.

No one in the Bible, besides Jesus, is ever called a natural son of Mary.

Aieno Wrote:

The Greek word translated “brother” is “adelophos”, which means from the same womb when referring to biological brothers. The Greek for cousin is “anepsios” and the Greek for kinsmen is “suggenes”. Chaste marriages were not part of Judaism since the Jews concept of marriage is the same concept behind why the Catholic Church prohibits artificial birth control. Such a relationship is not in God’s will or design for marriage.

"Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot". Genesis 11:26

The above verse tells us that Abram is the uncle of Lot: Abram is the brother of Lot's father.

"And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed. And when Abram heard that his brother [Lot] was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan". Genesis 14:12,14

Above the verse, Abram is called Lot's "brother".

Here is the greek version from the Septuagint that was translated by Jewish scholars about a century before Jesus'.

akousas de abram hoti Echmalwteutai lwt ho adelphos autou ErithmEsen tous idious oikogeneis autou triakosious deka kai oktw kai katediwxen opisw autwn hews dan Genesis 14:14

The word “adelophos”, does NOT only refer to a biological brother from the same womb, that is incorrect.

Aieno Wrote:

The definition of virgin includes an unbroken hymen. When Mary gave birth to Jesus she ceased to be a virgin. Your unholy traditions are heretical.

Mary is a virgin in the sense that she never had intercourse. I think your biblical translations and self-interpretations of scripture are wrong, misguided and heretical.

Aieno Wrote:

You see Roses, your traditions violate God’s truth and as such demonstrate the first major apostasy in Christianity came in the 4th century with the Catholic and Orthodox churches importing pagan and Gnostic concept into their doctrines.

None of our traditions go against scripture, instead they flow together.



Peace