Hi Liberate, thank you for your comments.
Liberate wrote:
I would relate to your comment if we were but we are not deists, pantheists, or agnostics we can agree that there is a God, the question is which one? islam or christianity?
There's one God. Islam accepts Him as He is, because Islam is His religion. Christianity defines a new God, which makes it corrupt.
For ex. for an atheist, he has to decide if there's a Creator first. When he decides there's a Creator he has to make it three if he will be a Christian.
You are not being objective here, I believe in true objectivity, can't point out the mote in one's eye when there is a 2 by 4 in yours. If I was to tell you that I had a message from God that you should give me your daughter to marriage to me as it is ordained by God, you should raid caravans and give me 5% of the booty, that the world has been created for me and I and I alone hear the voice of God and whoever denies that I am the messenger of God has created great shirk and should be killed, what would you think of me?
God does not choose His prophets arbitrarily. Muhammad pbuh had his own merits as a blessing from God, so that people would accept him wholeheartedly as a Messenger of God. He was known as Muhammad al ameen (reliable Muhammad) even among unbelievers. But the real point is that He called people to obey One God, he did not define a new God beyond people's comprehension.
Am I not speaking purely on my own, there is no one anywhere that can vouch for me except whatsoever is going on in the theatre of my mind. You will realise I am comparing your comment in your quote in bold with the revelations of your prophet. God has never acted via one man alone before, the God of the christian and the jews sent revelations to several people at the same time, His spirit dwelled on several prophets, kings, disciples and their followers. Can the same be said about Mohammed?
In fact it is you who is not being objective here. Also you act on your dhann (conjecture) over God's. That would only be a minor point in search of truth.
He is the only one hearing allah via very suspicious epileptic fits, whenever Mohammed wanted something, eg a new wife, to take a captive's wife for himself for sexual purposes, to collect booty, he would conveniently utter poetic 'revelation' to justify it, it becomes clear with the hadiths that there is a fine line between Mohammed/jibreel/allah.
Muhammad pbuh was not a king. He chose not to be so, he lived as an ordinary man. He did not accumulate wealth and fortune on his Message. So this a weak attack on Him.
On the other hand what would you think about Solomon. He was a ruler/prophet with wealth and power. Would you make the same claims about him too?
Why would a God that resounds immovability in judaism and christianity suddenly change the rules so drastically to speak via one man in epileptic seizures? Justifiying what before He regarded as sin? To a christian this is not God but something imitating to be God.
A bit perplexed here. You accept a man who claims He is God, but also accuse Muhammad for imitating God, which of course is not true.
Concerning your comments about the trinity that no one can imagine such a thing.
Let me try and explain it with a muslim alternative:
You believe God can see everything?
You believe God can be everywhere?
If God can do this. Does that make Him more than one?
Surely it defies logic for one to be everywhere at once?
If God can do this and still be singular. Then we are dealing with a God that cannot be understood wholly, that alleviates above and beyond our human comprehensive abilities of logic.
There's a perfect order in the universe and God has to be perfect. So the points you bring above are not uncomprehensible. What is beyond comprehension is trinity, thats why Christians rule out questions about its feasibility. In what way you formulate it there are still problems especially from cosmological point of view.
Are all three entities eternal? How come their Wills does not clash? If the Will of Father surpasses others then the others are no Gods.
If the other two came into existence later in time by Will of the Father, then they are still no Gods.
Trinity strongly resembles Roman polytheism, with notion of gods with partial authority.
Let us look at it in another way. We as logical human beings see things in finite time. Once upon a time everything had to have a beginning, that is how we perceive life. Can we apply the same to God? can we imagine a God that has always existed? that is responsible for the creation of time and uninfluenced by time itself?
If you are an atheist you might well think matter is eternal, because something has to be. If you believe in a Creator God you cannot ask who created Him, because nothing and noone created later can be God.
Now if God is not influenced by time and is responsible for the creation of time then He knows exactly the beginning of time to the end of time. He knows what will happen in between before they happen...prophecy. This is one of the signatures that God uses to let people know that the message is coming from Him, He will actually tell the message before it occurs.
Oh yes. Muhammad pbuh is fullfillment of His prophecy.
The muslim tactic regarding this has been to claim that the original prophecies/books have been corrupted and lost, but do they really realise the significance of what they alledge? That God who knows the beginning from the end would allow the testament of Abraham to be lost and/or corrupted. Would allow the torah to be lost and/or corrupted. Would allow the zabor of David to be lost/or corrupted. Would allow the injil of Jesus to be lost and/or corrupted. Apart from insulting the morality of jewish and christian followers to allow this corruption, it makes God out as not being able to protect any of His messages on a serial basis.
These "why would allow" questions can go to infinity. If God is merciful, why would He allow wars, why would He allow children starve to death. Why would He allow torture......There are many who ask these questions and then they would disobey God or conclude there's no God.
Do you know why? Because you and they evlauate God within their own conjectures. Satan made his own conjecture and decided that he has to be superior to Adam as he was created of fire while Adam was created of dust.
Conjecture and objective thinking are two different notions.
In other to prove that corruption has occured you need evidential manuscripts that back up your stance of what was corrupted. Several archaelogical finds, the dead sea scrolls to name but one has emphasized that the old testament has not been corrupted. It is precisely as it was at the time of Jesus give or take a negligible percentage relating to grammar. In it it states that the Messiah would be born of the seed of a woman (a virgin birth something even the koran alludes to). Of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Judah, of the lineage of David, called "the Mighty God", would be given for a convenant, would be the stone that would be rejected but would be the headstone, would be crucified, would rise from the dead, to name a few. All fulfilled and documented in the new testament.
Can the same be said of allah's book? What significant prophecies do you honestly know are contained in the koran? If you know of one please let us in.
Muhammad himself is the fullfillment of God's prophecy. What other prophecy do you want me to cite? Well, did you read scientific stuff about Qur'an? Maybe that will of some help. Nothing in Quran is disproved scientifically, even this " between backbone and ribs" stuff.
Your koran says that the jews planned to kill Jesus. Why don't you ask yourself a simple question, WHAT DID JESUS DO THAT THE JEWS WANTED TO KILL HIM?
Do you really think He said worship one God and do good works like all the other prophets? was the reason why they would want to kill Him? He must have done or said something, people don't want to kill for no reason.
Why did they kill Zachariah? Did he say God will visit you Himself?
Jews killed many of their prophets, because they addressed Jews' arrogance such that they believe they are chosen people and religion and truth of God is reserved for themselves.
You say mankind is innocent, hence no sin nature no original sin no need for Jesus to die on the cross. Islam says that Adam and Eve were in the garden in paradise, do you know what reason islam gives for Adam and Eve being on earth and no longer in paradise?
Yes, satan deceived them. And they regretted and Allah accepted their repentance. We have the freedom to commit sins, keeping in mind that we will be held responsible. If we repent, God is Merciful. And this is a relation between God and us (unless our act breaches social order, when a worldy sanction might be required along with our repentence.) No one is needed to die for me.
Regards,
Unite