ArchivedChristadelphianismHi Rome, RomeSweetHome wrote:Greetings Huldah and Merry Christmas, you do celebrate Christmas dont you? or are you like the JW's who dont?
Thanks and 'merry Christmas' to you too. We have no hard and fast rules in our community about celebrating Christmas - some do and some don't.
RomeSweetHome wrote:Huldah Wrote:
I'm happy to explain these passages to you. If you want me to do so, then please begin a new thread in this section, or I will if you like. Lets keep this thread on the subject of the nature of Christ, or it will get bogged down. I will respond to both threads.
I think we can discuss it here, I dont think Omega will mind to be honest.
OK, but actually, I've started a new thread here, as I myself would like to keep this thread about the nature of Christ.
RomeSweetHome wrote:So you believe that Rev 14.10 is describing Hell? Have you read the context? Again, I'm prepared to discuss this further with you in another thread.
The Bible mentions Hell 162 times in the New Testament alone, would you like another verse?
Further discussion in this thread.
RomeSweetHome wrote:Huldah Wrote:
Ah yes, the verse that was added in by trinitarians...
So you believe the bible has been tampered with?
Apostle John in his first Epistle, chapter 5 and verse 7 wrote: " For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one."
I think you'll find that Apostle John had little to do with that bit. Here are the facts about 1 John 5 vs 7:
I John 5:7
The reading found in the KJV is spurious. It is is absent from every Greek manuscript except eight, all dating from the sixteenth century or later. These include 61, 88, 221, 429, 636, 918, and 2318. Of these 8 manuscripts, four contain the passage as a variant reading in the margin, added by a later hand.
Erasmus, in the first two editions of the Textus Receptus, did not include the passage, stating that he could not find it in any of the Greek codices available to him. After considerable pressure (and possibly the presentation of a ready-made "ancient copy"), Erasmus included it in his third edition. From here, it made its way into the KJV.
Bruce Metzger comments:
- The passage is absent from every known Greek manuscript except eight, and these contain the passage in what appears to be a translation from a late rescension of the Latin Vulgate...
The passage is quoted by none of the Greek fathers, who, had they known it, would most certainly have employed it in the Trinitarian controversies (Sabellian and Arian). Its first appearance in Greek is in a Greek version of the (Latin) Acts of the Lutheran Council in 1215.
The passage is absent from the manuscripts of all ancient versions (Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopic, Arabic, Slavonic), except the Latin; and it is not found (a) in the Old Latin in its early form (Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine), or in the Vulgate (B) as issued by Jerome (codex Fuldensis [copied AD 541-46] and codex Amiatinus [copied before AD 716]) or © as revised by Alcuin (first hand of codex Vallicellianus 9th century.)
The earliest instance of the passage being quoted as a part of the actual text of the Epistle is in a fourth century Latin treatise entitled Liber Apologeticus (chapter 4), attributed either to the Spanish heretic Priscillian (died about 385CE) or to his follower Bishop Instantius...
Metzger, Bruce M. (1971), A Textual Commentaty on the Greek New Testament.
It is true to say that of all the Trinitarian interpolations, I John 5:7 is arguably the most famous (or rather, the most infamous!) Source.
RomeSweetHome wrote:If you deny the deity of Christ, then who and what is Christ to you?
The divine Son of God, but not the deity.
RomeSweetHome wrote:To know Jesus was to know God (John 8:19; 14:7). To see Him was to see God (12:45; 14:9). To believe in Him was to believe in God (12:44; 14:1). To receive Him was to receive God (Mark 9:37). To hate Him was to hate God (John 15:23). And to honor Him was to honor God (5:23).
These verses teach that the Father could be seen in the Son, and I agree with this, however, to say that they teach that Jesus was of the same substance as the Father, is to go beyond what is there in the word.
RomeSweetHome wrote:Huldah Wrote:
All the 'orthodox teachings of the bible'? Interesting, as the church which calls itself 'orthodox' took several centuries defining what the accepted 'orthodox' beliefs were. If you are arguing that your 'orthodox' beliefs come from the Bible then you will have to prove that the Bible teaches them, which you haven't done so far.
What did the early christians believe? shall we take a look at the early church fathers?
Yes, lets. Where would you like to start?
RomeSweetHome wrote:when did your belief come into being? as far as I know Christadelphianism is relatively new denomination.
Lets not confuse beliefs with communities. Our community was formed in the mid 1800s, but the beliefs we hold were around before then, and can be traced back to earlier Christian communities.
Peace
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