Musti wrote:I haven't paid any attention to the exact wording of the above translation and your adjustments are not significant to my argument
It has alot of significance. Read the preface to each translators work. They all say there translation is based on an interpretation rather than what the Quran actually says which is not the Quran.
What we did is gave a readering, as near as possible, of what the Quran says in the grammar of its text, then gave an interpretation seperately. Your translations mean nothing to us, they do not hold preference to the original. And again you should read the translators prefaces about their translations.
Musti wrote:The top to suras are quite clear as regards the stars purpose
Sure if you wish follow a translators interpretation of a text be our guest. You havent proved to us anything.
Musti wrote:One of them is as a guard for evil spirits.
Yea according to the interpretation of the translator that you wish to accept. Unfortunaltely "a gaurd" is refering to the firmament not the stars in the Arabic text.
Musti wrote:N0 translation agrees with you that the word means stoning
There are over 30 different translations out there have you read all of them ? Did we ? No, we have no use for translations.
Musti wrote:All the translations I have read including the one above decribe the word as pelted, thrown at, attaked etc. Stoning is just one example of this, clarly the word does not literally mean stoning. One should not make up meaning for words just to strengthen their argument.
How would you know ? Do you know Arabic ?
Nasir:
Rujum is the word in the arabic and it can mean missiles but it dont
have to mean that.
Rujum can also mean stonings like the action.
Rujum is more than one or
plural of
rajm and maybe you know that
rajm
also means stoning.
So if you want really literal translation think
of it like we made her stonings to the devils. Arabic dont have the
exact same grammers as english. But jaalnaha is so clearly meaning
her or it with the it being the heaven because it is singular and
feminine. So the general idea that is clear to me is that the heaven
was made so that if devils entered it this is the place where their
going to get stoned. Also jaala means to put or create or effect or
bring about or set or get a specific condition or fix. These are all
the meanings of the word in Surah Mulk and you should consider them
when trying to grasps the verse. What it is saying is something is
done to her and that something is make her so that to devils there are
stonings.
http://www.talkaboutreligion.com/group/ ... 14463.html
We translated literally what the text expresses. The translators did not. When you are finish dabbling you should go find out what the plural of "rajm" is. We even invited you to use google it has lots of references.
Musti wrote:First of all I don't know how you come to these conclusions. Fist of all you assume that the piercing flame is not referring to meteorites as a result of me mentioning they don't light up. Let's see the evidence against this
No wrong it had nothing to do with you. It had to do with paying attention to the text of the Quran collectively. What you posted up in hadeeth contradicted the Quran as to how fast Jinns can move and the ambigiouty of the Arabic words "
shihaabun thaaqib". This can even apply to a laser. We gave our unerstanding of it to be refering to another source of piercing flame of light.
Musti wrote:086.003
YUSUFALI: (It is) the Star of piercing brightness;-
PICKTHAL: - The piercing Star!
SHAKIR: The star of piercing brightness;
The sura is clearly giving evidence that a star has a piercing brightness.
Just like the piercing flame in this sura.
Duh ! Isnt a star a sun. Its pearcing brighteness is refering to its light. The sun is also a star, its light is also a pearcing brightness that is scourching.
Musti wrote:To conclude if me make the assumption that jinns travel at the speed of light or faster(contary to evidence) they will never be caught. Remember it still takes light over 8 years to make a return journey.
An assumption ? What did the Quran say ? We can careless what you show from hadeeth if it contradicts Quran.
Now you brought the issue of time. How time affect us does not mean it affects the world of the Jinn the same.