epistle online wrote:I never attacked your character. You asked for bible based facts, so I gave them to you. When you have nothing in the bible to refer to you turn to other books. I believe all answers are found in the bible, so I need not to look to others. You look to other books when you cannot find somehting to arge your point.
Can you show me anywhere in any of my posts where I have used anything but the Bible to defend my position? I'm not the one who is using songwriters and "prominent Bible commentaries" to make my points.
epistle online wrote:Davids son represents, just as Gods word does, to everyone. Was 1 Corinthians, just to the corinthians? Was Timothy, just to him? Do you not use these to your own life, or are they ust for those people.
Sure I use them in my own life, but that does not mean that everything in the Bible was meant for me to apply to my life. Abraham was commanded to leave his family and go to an unknown land. Does that mean I need to leave my family and go to an unknown land, too? You can't take any verse and say that it applies to everyone automatically. You must compare that verse to the rest of Scripture to come up with a proper interpretation and application.
epistle online wrote:I guess you think we just lay back and God forgives us, then we just take a free ride to heaven. We can sin all we want, and never have to repent?
I never said or implied that there is no need for repentance, or that we can sin all we want. We have the free will to sin if we want, but sinning does not mean that we lose our salvation, and it doesn't negate the fact that there are consequences to our sin, both here and after we die - hence the Judgment Seat of Christ, where Christians are rewarded for their works or lack thereof. But this is digressing into an OSAS argument, so I'll leave it at that.
epistle online wrote:He predestined us ALL to be conformed to the image of his son, it does not mean that we will.
How do you figure that? If God predestinates everyone to be something, how can it be possible that anyone would not become what God has predestinated them to be? That makes no sense whatsoever.
epistle online wrote:Salvation is for everyone. Many are called, few are chosen.
So you think God says "Hey everyone, come to my party!" Then when everyone starts to come, God stands at the door as a bouncer saying "You can come in - I've chosen you. But you better leave - I haven't chosen you." Why would God invite someone, but not choose them? It's a contradiction. It makes more sense, and is less contradictory to say that everyone God invites, He chooses.
epistle online wrote:What mercy would there be in creating some to go to Hell, and some to heaven.
You're missing it. The mercy is in the fact that some do get to go to heaven. The justice is in that the rest go to hell. God would have been perfectly just in creating us all and not offering a way of salvation at all. We sin. The consequence of that sin is death and hell. That's justice.
epistle online wrote:That would take the whole thing of Free Will away and make us all robots just going through our life with no decisions.
No, it wouldn't. Just because God can choose to save some, does not mean that he chooses every action that everyone takes. That's the main problem with the article that you cut and pasted. God knowing what will happen
is not the same as Him directing everything that will happen. The reason God knows everything that happens in the future is not because He ordered it to happen that way (thereby eliminating free will). The reason He knows everything in the future is because God exists outside of time, therefore there is no past or future in His frame of reference - everything is in the present to God.
epistle online wrote:We are saved by grace. But if we are really saved we will work. Faith without works is dead!
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
No argument here! I've never said that we are saved by anything other than grace. It's you who is saying that you have to make a choice to be saved.
James has been called the Proverbs of the NT. It teaches us how we ought to live. It does not teaches us that we must live a certain way in order to continue to be saved. In the same way we are not saved by works, we are not kept saved by works. But we ought to do good works because we are saved.
epistle online wrote:Predestination
We believe that God did give us free will. That being the case, how can He know what we are going to do before we do it? If He knows what we will do, then He must be controlling what we do and we don’t have free will.
Like I said this is a faulty assumption. Just because He knows what we will do does not mean he controls what we do. Starting with a faulty assumption means that the rest of the argument is pretty much wasted breath (or typing in this case).
epistle online wrote:Is it possible, even more likely, that “all-knowing” means knowing what can happen rather than what will happen?
The difference between what can happen and what will happen is moot as I've explained before, since God is not controlling what happens, He simply knows what will happen because it is happening in the present for Him.
epistle online wrote:In Jeremiah 29:11 (NIV) we read “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope.” This seems to say that God doesn’t have just one plan for us but many plans.
First, the word in the KJV (which I believe is the best translation) is "thoughts" not "plans." I'm no Hebrew scholar, so I don't know the exact implication of the word used here, but I wanted to let you know that there is another translation out there. Second, let's look at the context of that verse.
- Jeremiah 29:1-11
1 Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon;
2 (After that Jeconiah the king, and the queen, and the eunuchs, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, and the carpenters, and the smiths, were departed from Jerusalem
3 By the hand of Elasah the son of Shaphan, and Gemariah the son of Hilkiah, (whom Zedekiah king of Judah sent unto Babylon to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon) saying,
4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon;
5 Build ye houses, and dwell in them; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them;
6 Take ye wives, and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons, and give your daughters to husbands, that they may bear sons and daughters; that ye may be increased there, and not diminished.
7 And seek the peace of the city whither I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the LORD for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace.
8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
9 For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.
10 For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
We see in verse one that this passage is written to a group of people, not to one man. So whether you use "thoughts" or "plans," the point is the same - the verse has been taken out of context. Of course there are multiple plans - God is talking to multiple people!
epistle online wrote:Question: Do babies go to heaven when they die?
Answer: .......
All of the answers listed are the same things I've shown you are in error already. One thing more I would add: The author says "Babies cannot sin because they have no knowledge of right and wrong." Ok, so this implies that anyone who does not have a knowledge of right and wrong cannot sin. Let me ask you this: If Saul of Tarsus had died the day before he got on the road to Damascus, would he have gone to heaven? According to you, he would have. Everything he did before he was converted (persecuting the church, killing believers, etc.), he did because he thought he was stamping down a false religion that was against the one true God. He did not have a knowledge of what was right and what was wrong before he was converted. Do you really think he would have gone to heaven?
epistle online wrote:"Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died." (Romans 7:9)
Paul said that he died spiritually when sin "sprang to life" within him, but before this happened he was spiritually alive. Here's what a prominent Bible commentary says about this verse:
"Evidently the apostle was speaking of his personal experience as a child and perhaps even a youth prior to his awareness and understanding of the full impact of God's commandments. ... The result was that the principle of sin within made its presence and power known (it sprang to life) in his violations of the commandment. As a result Paul died spiritually" (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.466-467)
According to Paul's example, we were all spiritually alive as children until sin "sprang to life" within us. At that point we died spiritually.
I'm not convinced that sin being dead means that we are sinless before we come to a knowledge of the law (take the example with Paul above). Perhaps it simply means that sin does not have the same affect in our lives before we know the law as it does after. If we don't know the law, then we don't feel guilt, so sin does not drive us to guilt and repentance like it does when we know the law. Thus, sin is dead in that it does not drive us to Christ.
To be honest, this passage is perplexing to me - it does not convince me that your view is right at all, but at the same time, on the surface it is confusing. I am continuing to study this one, and I appreciate your opinions, and more importantly, your prayers.
epistle online wrote:In this context, the "little ones" in Matthew 18:6 (above) are people who have humbled themselves and who believe in Jesus. ..... Since Jesus said that we must become like little children in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, the implication is that little children are not excluded from heaven for any reason.
The implication is that we must humble ourselves and believe in Jesus with a child-like faith, not that little children are not excluded from heaven.
epistle online wrote:If we don't put our faith in Jesus then our sins (our sin nature) will send us to hell.
So, what then? Babies don't have sin natures? LOL
epistle online wrote:Therefore, since infants and young children have no sins on their record (because God is not holding them accountable), then they do not need to believe in Jesus in order to wipe their slates clean.
Romans 3:23
ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Not "all, except babies."
epistle online wrote:You know Aineo made a good statement earlier saying how even Jesus was born with sin nature.
What? Where does this come from? Having a sin nature means that everything we do is bent toward sin, and that sin affects every part of our being. You really think Jesus had a sin nature? Show some Scripture, please.