Christian/Muslim ThreadsBible Corruption and Who are the Real Authors?Sorry for being so late to reply EssentiallyIslam
Kai replies: First of all, which Christians, and which passage in the Holy Bible do you base your assumption on? You seem to get the angle wrong, you presume that some Christians assumably consider the Koran to be the word of God, and then Christianity must consider the Koran to be divine revelation. The problem becomes however, that no Christians believe the Koran to be the Word of God; some might respect it as it contains plagiarised truth, but they do not consider it inspired or revealed by God. Secondly, unless you can base your conclusion upon Biblical passages, there is nothing to confirm your claim. Essentially wrote:
Kai replies: If the previous Books need protection, then they are corrupted, if they are corrupted, then the Koran gives credit and testimony to a corrupted book. And the Koran certainly provides it credit:
As a matter of fact, EssentiallyIslam, you are not even permitted to argue with me, you obligation is to believe in what Allah has revealed to you, the Koran, and what God has revealed to me and all the other Jews and Christians, the previous revelations. Keep in mind also, that this was supposedly revealed about year 600 AD, an era when the whole Christian world (if we can call it that) possessed the current Canon of the Bible; hence the Koran recognises the present Bible. The Koran even warns me a Christian, and virtually any Christian and Jew to perform our Books; otherwise we have nothing to stand upon; how is that possible if these Books are corrupted, or if they need correction? Why does the Koran not simply command us to leave these books, due to their complete corruption and follow the Koran only? If you ever get the chance to look at the debate between Sam Shamoun and Shabir Ally, on the Bible or the Koran, which is the Word of God, you will see that even a renown debater as Shabir Ally, whom I have the greatest respect for, when it comes to Muslim debators, was unable to prove from the Koran that the bible was corrupted; he merely stated that the Koran respects holy books. My reply here would be: Does the Almighty God need to respect corrupted books? I don’t think so, why does the Koran not specifically state that the previous Revelations are all corrupt, that they should be rejected; but that is not what the Koran does or even attempts. Some Muslims would also say that the present Torah and Gospel are not the true ones; that they were lost from the very beginning of their origins. But look at the text, The Torah and the Gospel is with them (with whom? The Jews and Christians) in the sixth century; from a century which we know how the Christians globally perceived the Biblical Canon. Thus the Bible which the Jews and Christians read today is the same as the one the Koran refers to and the same since its very origin. Again, the Koran is specific here, it explicitly commands you, a Muslim to believe in Allah, the Koran, his messenger (Muhammad) and the Scripture he sent before him; this is the criteria every Muslim has to believe in to remain a Muslim. Keep in mind then, that the passage refers to the previous Revelations as they were perceived and read within Muhammad’s time and era, in other words the Toran and the Injeel which we possess and believe in today. If you do not you have gone fare astray! As the Koran and a range of Hadith passages confirm: Muhammad clearly believed in both the Torah and the Injeel that were present at this time. It suprises me therefore that so many Muslims today, do not follow in the footsteps of their prophet; in fact if Muhammad had been given the chance meet the Muslim global community, he would hardly recognise the religion which he promoted; especially I believe, he would discredit most Muslims for disrespecting and doubt the previous religions, which both the Koran and Muhammad himself testified to. EssentiallyIslam wrote: Kai replies: Well bro, in the Koran, the Koran and the previous books are all considered to be one; in fact the previous Revelations are considered a portion of the book, but together they make up the full book. According to the Koran they support each other, or if using your terminology they correct each other, but they are supposed to match, at least according to the Koran: So the Koran does confirm the Bible So the Book (Bible) supposedly confirms the Koran So the previous Revelations are a portion of the Book; which book? Is it the same book mentioned in Sura 10: 94, then what does it signify?
If the Koran corrects it, how does it correct it, what specifically has been corrected, and if you remove those passages how do you think it will effect the context? I am not totally sure which passage you are referring to here, but if they are 10:37, 12:111, 3:3, 5:46, 35:31, the word used is "Saddaqa" which means "confirm, to give credence, to believe, to accept as true, confirmation, accepting as true, belief, confirming, establishing as true". Hence I am fully aware of the Koranic passages on which you base your conclusion, but could you please elaborate on these and explain why these passages necessarily confirm Bible Corruption. But then again define corruption, when it comes to the Gospel of Barnabas which is a modern forgery, and full of historical, geographical, cultural and theological mistakes: errors which you seem to be aware off, you at the same time deem it to be truthworthy; here is your reply to Aineo which reveals my point: Kai replies: Are you then willing to look at the New Testament in the same way, because compared to the Gospel of Barnabas, the New Testament is well historically confirmed. EssentiallyIslam wrote:
Kai replies: Why is the teaching then found in the very Scriptures which the Koran gives credits too, and which I a Christian am told to follow and you a Muslim to believe in? EssentiallyIslam wrote:
Kai replies: Well, if you don’t Sura 4: 136 says that you have gone far astray! I am not sure thus this mean you are going to Hell? EssentiallyIslam writes:
Kai replies: But then you cannot be a Muslim, then you have already argued with the people of the book, and you have already denied its content, and gone far astray. EssentiallyIslam writes: Kai replies: Well to me this can’t be true to anyone, it’s a contradiction, in what sense can that be deemed submitting to the Will of God? Could you please elaborate more on this? No offence I hope Be blessed bro |
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