Abdullah wrote:
Commentary about Mark 16:9-20:
"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes, page 1528)"
The above statement proves that the bible isnt original as it was when written.
Kai replies:
How do you know that? How does anyone know that?
Consider these points:
The writing material in these days was papyrus which lasted only for a short while, this is the very reason why so little documentation of this era exists today.
This is the reason why the earliest copies of Aristotle and Julius Caesar date 9 and 10th century
This is an era, from which we do not expect any documented evidence of any kind to any anything.
As to Mark, it’s a fact that we do not possess a full manuscript of Mark from this particular era, and why is that? Well look at it from a historical point of view, many of the manuscripts did not survive, as papyrus they deteriorated. Other manuscripts we find have simply not yet been completed.
Thus, only because an ending is lacking in some of these earliest manuscripts, it simply proves nothing
And then again, if these pages were added later on, you would still have submit to the fact that rest of the Gospels are historically confirmed and date back to the earliest times, which confirms that these were indeed the writings of apostles, which knew Jesus Christ and simply followed the command to be witnesses, and these Gospels which you so boldly deny is that witness.
And further if you consider this to be a problem, then how about the fact that Koranic tradition itself reveals that significant amounts of the Koran were lost in the Battle of Yamama, before the compilation of the Koran ever took place:
Many (of the passages) of the Qur'an that were sent down were known by those who died on the day of Yamama ... but they were not known (by those who) survived them, nor were they written down, nor had Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman (by that time) collected the Qur'an, nor were they found with even one (person) after them. (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.23).
Thus the Koran, which you read today is not completed, it was collected in rush, to avoid further loss.
Similarly there are quite reliable claims that passages were deliberately omitted from the Koran:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, ‘We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) IN THE HOLY BOOK,’ and consequently they may GO ASTRAY by leaving AN OBLIGATION that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816)
... In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.
I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, ‘By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,’ and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession. And then we used to recite among the Verses in Allah's BOOK: ‘O people! Do not claim to be the offspring of other than your fathers, as it is disbelief (unthankfulness) on your part that you claim to be the offspring of other than your real father’ ..." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817)
Even Dawud confirms 11 modification in the Uthmanic standard text of the Koran, which Muslim read today:
Altogether al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf made eleven modifications in the reading of the Uthmanic text. ... In al-Baqarah (Surah 2.259) it originally read Lam yatasanna waandhur, but it was altered to Lam yatasannah ... In al-Ma'ida (Surah 5.48) it read Shari ya'atan wa minhaajaan but it was altered to shir 'atawwa minhaajaan. (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.117).
Well possibly, the corruption went on, on a much greater scale, perhaps it began even before the Uthmanic text. Notice that the Uthmanic text had political motives more than spiritual, notice that Abdullah had to reject what Muhammad had revealed to him.
I don’t know what signal this is giving us about the integrity and reliability in of the Koran.
As to Mark:
Nobody can confidently make a strict conclusion about the end of Mark, simply nobody was there to observe the earliest compilation.
All we know from history concerning the Gospel of Mark (at this point, we can deal with the others later on) is that Mark was written in the middle of first century by Mark, writings down the words of Peter the apostle. This would be no more unreliable than accepting the Koranic recitation of any of the earliest reciters, so I don’t see what all the fuzz is about.
As to the Gospel claimed by the Muslims which supposedly is lost or gone in all the corruption, it is not revealed by manuscripts, history, church fathers, or early commentators.
This is what I call a Muslim Down-fall.
Unless there are any comments, I may continue with the Gospel of Luke