ArchivedOnce saved always saved?I have repeatedly used verse 9 as my proof that the passage is hypothetical. To paraphrase, the writer says "Even though I am saying this, I mean it only as a hypothetical situation, because we know that such things do not accompany [true] salvation." But my point was that nowhere in those passages can you conclusively prove that, if any of them were saved, they lost their salvation. You belief concerning OSAS leads you to believe that they did lose their salvation, whereas mine leads me to believe that they did not. Neither of us can prove our belief based on these passages alone because they do not speak to OSAS specifically. I think the key word in this sentence is the next to last word - "the". Whose faith is it that these apostates are falling away from? Is it their own faith in Jesus? No, it is not. We are not saved by our own faith in Jesus. Rather, we are saved by the faith of Jesus which is given to us by God. See Rom. 3:22, Gal. 6:12, Gal. 3:22, Rev. 14:12. We are not capable of our own natural volition to choose to have faith in God because the natural man is at enmity with God. We are given faith, we believe, and we are saved. So when you say that there are those that will fall away from the faith, it does not mean that they are moving away from their faith that God has given them; instead it means that they are moving further and further away from the faith and the true salvation of God. No, this is not a hypothetical situation at all. Look at what is said - "the overcomer's name will not be blotted out". This means exactly what it says. You, however, are taking this as an implication that the converse is also true, i.e. "the non-overcomer's name will be blotted out". As I stated before, a statement and it's converse are not logical equivalents, therefore you are not justified in using this verse to defend your claim. No you don't. God has predestined some to salvation, meaning that at a certain point in time, God will give a person the faith he needs to believe. This verse was written to encourage believers to remain strong even though Christ had not returned yet (which many saw as Him being "slack concerning His promise"). If Christ had returned earlier, then it would have been before the time that God had planned to apply His faith to many future believers' hearts, thus they would have been sent to hell. But God is not willing that they perish, so He waits until, in His perfect timeframe, He has applied faith to all those whom He will. This is not a contradiction. There is a contradiction if you believe that God has not predestined some to destruction, though:
There is no order to the two. They are like parallel railroad tracks, both happening at the same time. The verse says "who He foreknew, He also predestinated". It does not say "He foreknew, then He predestinated". This is not true. See Romans 9:18-24 above. Non-OSASers love to say this, but it is not true at all. Just because God knows something that will happen, that does not mean that He caused it to happen, or that He eliminated all other possibilities of something else happening. It simply means He knows what's going to happen. Nothing more. You're partially right. You cannot fall away from your faith once you have it. But you can fall/move/turn away from a faith that was never given to you. Witness the many people who have grown up as unsaved Catholics (relatively close to the faith). How many of them, when they are older, choose to reject the Catholic way of life and religion altogether. They have moved from a position of close to faith to not close at all. Or, even worse, they stay in Catholicism and believe more and more of the heresies taught by that religion. Then they become a priest and start teaching other to do the same. Funny..... that sounds exactly like what the Bible says will happen and what you alluded to when you said:'
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🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame