ArchivedOnce saved always saved?4givn4evr, I was raised in the Presbyterian Church so I am well aware of what Knox (the founder of Presbyterianism) taught and believed. Beads mentioned Catholicism as an example of an apostate church, well the Presbyterian Church USA is another great example. The PCUSA was the primary sponsor of a women's conference that offered prayers to the goddess Sophia (Gnosticisms personification of the Word [wisdom]) in the 1990's. So the actions of the PCUSA deny what even Calvin believed.
As to Demas, Hymenaeus, and Alexander if your interpretation is correct you have examples of the prodigal son. Also how does one learn not to blaspheme and what is blaspheming the Holy Spirit?
Beads, you refer to Hebrews 6 as a hypothetical situation with absolutely no proof that the author of Hebrews is speaking hypothetically. Hebrews 10:32-39
32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly, by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners, and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and an abiding one. 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 For yet in a very little while,
He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
38 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. NAS
However no OSAS proponent has yet to defeat what both Jesus and Paul taught concerning those who will fall away from the faith. You have danced around what is plainly taught in Scripture and that is that some will fall away from faith in Jesus Christ and teach others to do the same. Revelation 3:1-6
3:1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write:
He who has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars, says this: 'I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. 3'Remember therefore what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. If therefore you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come upon you. 4'But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white; for they are worthy. 5'He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels. 6'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. ' NAS
Is it your contention that the Lord was speaking hypothetically to the church at Sardis or that this is again the Lord being hypothetical? Revelation 21:6-8
6 And He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 "He who overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." NAS 4givn4evr wrote:Predetermination is not a minor controversy.
I suppose you could appeal to predestination as one reason to teach OSAS, but what does Scripture teach concerning predestination? Romans 8:26-30
26 And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. NAS
1 Corinthians 2:6-9
6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; 7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8 the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 9 but just as it is written,
"Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him."
NAS
Ephesians 1:3-12
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, 8 which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. NAS
If you believe that God has predestined some to destruction then we have a contradiction in Scripture: 2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. NAS
The KJ has this: 2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. KJV
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