Aburaees wrote:I'm not saying that the prayers aren't inferred to, I'm saying that the specific rulings for the times to pray are not given. And the times that are given can sometimes be interpreted in different ways, removing any claim of specificity in it.
The Qur'an tells us to pray around the time of sunset, but does not forbid us to coincide our prayer with sunset as the Hadiths do.
The Qur'an tells us to pray in the afternoon, but doesn't tell us how long the shaddows must be or how far the sun has declined as the Hadiths do.
The whole point of this prayer discussion is to show that Hadiths are relied upon for the specifics of prayer. Like the specific opening of a time for prayer, and a specific closing of a time for prayer.
Hadiths are relied upon for the specific number of obligatory prayers as the Qur'an aslo alludes to salatul-Layl and tahajjud which are not obligatory.
Hadiths are relied upon for the number of rakats, the sequence of events in a rakat, e.t.c.
The Hadiths may not contradict the Qur'an on this issue, but they are certainly a very neccessary complement to the contents of the Qur'an.
You need the Hadiths if you are to pray properly, and that is the crux of the matter.
Aburaees, I think we have went off field on this topic and I think you have misunderstood my position dealing with hadeeths in general. I accept hadeeths as a commentary to the Quran just as long as the hadeeth does not
1) conflict with Quran,
2) contradicts another hadeeth or other corroborating reports, and
3) its isnad is not weak.
Lets refresh on what I said to what has been concluded by you in our discussion
H2O wrote:They are human transmited sayings that are subject to error. When Bukhari collected his saying, and those before him, they never tested the authenticity of the hadeeth with the Quran when Hadeeth it self confirms that nothing is to be accepted if it contradicts Quran. The Quran makes it OBLIGATORY in this strengent manner.
He (Alllaah) sent down upon you (Muhammad) the Scripture (the Quran) in truth as a truth verifier for WHATEVER is at hand before it and He it is who sent down the Torah and the Injeel (the Gospel)...Quran 3:3
It is clear from Quran and many other verses that lay strengent proceedures on authenticating those things out side of it.
In Islam the Quran is the ONLY divine word of Alllaah that is the primary source of Islam, hadeeth is not the divine word of Alllaah it is ONLY a secondary authoritive source and commentary, hence authenticated by Quran, and supported by other hadeeths of the same report.
Kai wrote:If a Muslim reject Bukhari, then how about the five prayers
The five obligatory prayers are mentioned in the Quran not by name but their performances at the five parts of the day.
Aburaees wrote:As for the prayers, I'm only aware of THREE times of the day mentioned in the Qur'an, the very reason why Shi'ites combine Zuhr/Asr and Maghrib/Isha.
Kai wrote:
If a Muslim reject Bukhari, then how about the five prayers
The five obligatory prayers are mentioned in the Quran not by name but their performances at the five parts of the day.
Kai replies:
Could you please expound a bit further on this; to my knowledge three prayers are mentioned in the Koran (do correct me if I am wrong).
The other two are mentioned in the Hadith's
I supported my statment...
The five obligatory prayers are mentioned in the Quran not by name but their performances at the five parts of the day.
...with verses from the Quran, that we both expounded upon, in which you concluded :
Aburaees wrote:I'm not saying that the prayers aren't inferred to, I'm saying that the specific rulings for the times to pray are not given. And the times that are given can sometimes be interpreted in different ways, removing any claim of specificity in it.
I am not in disagreement here, my point was drawn to my original statement. I was not argueing that the Quran is specific on all the prayers, I argued that the 5 prayers are mentioned in the Quran be it direct or indirectly. It seems that you and I are on the same page but looking at the same page from different sides.
Peace !