Archiveda literal hell? i found this article interestingSo are you saying you’ve never experienced error, but have experienced warnings from God? How can that be? I, myself, have had experiences of both kinds, in number. Also, I'd have to disagree with your assessment, and propose that the flip side of truth is falsehood, while the reverse of error would be righteousness. Just a thought. Thanks for the reminder, however it was not necessary. All my references come directly from the King James Version, which is public domain and may be used by anyone for any purpose, even for profit, although of course that is not my purpose. But we are not saved by works—living in obedience is ‘works’. Living by faith is by believing. Acts 19:4 states that baptism was required so that the people would believe on the Words of Christ. That was John the Baptist’s job: to straighten the way for the Lord, so that His Words would be received. Baptism is given to us to follow for a reason, and is therefore necessary to salvation: Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. I did not take the passage from 1 Peter out of context, only posted it out of context. The whole passage doesn’t change what that passage says, and the reference to Noah is as an example to explain the meaning, not change it. Nothing you've referenced mentions eternal torment in a fiery hell in a manner precluding inference. It must meet all of the criteria, in a undisputable way: eternal, torment, fire. And yet, you are saying Peter speaks in metaphors, so what he said is not literally applicable? Does that mean that the book of Revelation is all fit for literal interpretation and application, as well as the gospel of Matthew, including the Words of Jesus, which would mean the parables were literal and not metaphor? That would mean there is literally a fiery furnace, it must be the one belonging to Nebuchanezzar. Just kidding, don’t take it the wrong way. Still it doesn’t say these things will result in eternal torment. How can one suffer torment forever if they are not given eternal life? Only those with their name in the book will live forever. The others will be thrown into a lake of fire. Easy enough. But we know that we are to live forever in God’s Kingdom, with new garments on, not in the flesh. And we also know that there is no way flesh can survive immersion in a lake of fire. The book of Daniel had a man-made furnace so hot that it burned the guards who just got close to it. But not God’s prophets, since they had the spirit of God as protection. So only those who have the spirit of God in them have any chance of any type of survival in a fiery lake, which isn’t necessary since it is not they who will be thrown into it. There is nothing in the bible that says that the unsaved will eternally suffer. They will cease to be, as if they never were, but in order to suffer forever, one has to be conscious forever. The only place that guarantees eternal torture is Revelation, and even there is alluded to, if you combine the meanings of two verses to come up with that conclusion. 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. The only place this is said directly is about the devil in 20:10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. The problem with using Revelation, is that it can either be taken totally literally, which is a harder thing to do in regard to resolution of many of its passages, than it would be to try to understand it completely within its symbolism, or it can be taken in the proper manner for the prophesy that it is. This book was given to us in symbolic representation just as the parables were given to the masses because there are very difficult concepts to understand within it. Not one person living can say with truth that they understand the full meaning and interpretation of every single symbol, as it applies to all of us. If there were, then there would be much less speculation and discussion. It is the least understood book in the bible, for everyone, and to try to interpret it in relation to a subject which is applicable to everyone who chooses, such as salvation, is just as much an adding to the words as adding actual written words to its pages would be. That is what the admonition means, that we should not try to interpret this book for the general public, it is a personal thing, given to one person, to give to all of us on a personal level, as it is a prophetic vision, not a gospel, an epistle, or a book of law or history. The bible is 100% truth and profitable for all Christians for essential guidance, but it is not uniformly applicable to all areas of life, and one must understand the uses as intended, not as convenient. The words of Jesus are of two sorts only: those in parable form, or straight direct hits of truth which is not subject to misinterpretation. Which of these is Revelation? Many people have not truly understood the complete concept in every single parable, and there is much less contention over the meaning of these than there is about Revelation. Jesus is straightforward about what we must do to inherit the Kingdom, and in relation to hell, He says, in Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Destroy is not the same as eternal torment. Destroy is defined as to demolish, put an end to, do away with, or kill, as well as to break up or spoil completely. The idea of hell as a place of punishment for non believers for the purpose of suffering eternally the torment of fleshly combustion is man’s idea, not God’s. That was the initial point addressed in the first post in this thread, and you still haven’t proven satisfactorily that God sends all nonbelievers to such a place under never-ending conditions. There is no sound proof of that, and your attachment to such an idea is in no way indicative that I have blinders on, and rather, it points out the possibility that the blinders are being worn by you, yourself. As to what purpose is it good for you to hold to the idea of eternal punishment? Is it necessary for your personal walk in faith? I just don’t understand. BTW, all scriptures out of the non copyrighted version of King James, as always. I am a much more thorough examiner of these things than you might assume. When you cite your reference as 'NAS', do you mean the New American Standard Bible? If so, you might want to check this page: http://www.gospelcom.net/lockman/tlf/copyright.php |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame