ArchivedCalling all Catholics!RomeSweetHome wrote:All the Church fathers were Catholic and the early Church was too, dont deny fact.
Peace
Don't revise history. Again since you have made this claim you have the burden of proof, so prove it, without using Catholic sources.
What will I accept as proof? An unbiased history that does not use the Catholic Church as the source for supposed "facts". Any properly translated document from your church fathers. Now in order to be properly translated into English any Greek manuscript that uses the word "katholikos" or any Latin manuscript that uses the word "catholicus" must read in English "universal" as this is what these two words mean.
How much do you know about Jewish culture and Jewish idioms? Matt 16:19
[Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth] This mode of expression was frequent among the Jews: they considered that everything that was done upon earth, according to the order of God, was at the same time done in heaven: hence, they were accustomed to say, that when the priest, on the day of atonement, offered the two goats upon earth, the same were offered in heaven. As one goat therefore is permitted to escape on earth, one is permitted to escape in heaven; and when the priests cast the lots on earth, the priest also casts the lots in heaven. See Sohar. Lev. fol. 26; and see Lightfoot and Schoettgen. These words will receive considerable light from Lev 13:3,23: The priest shall look upon him (the leper) and pronounce him unclean. Heb. wªTimee' (OT:2930) 'otow (OT:853), he shall pollute him, i.e. shall declare him polluted, from the evidences mentioned before. And in Matt 16:23: The priest shall pronounce him clean, wªTihªrow (OT:2891) hakoheen (OT:3548), the priest shall cleanse him, i.e. declare he is clean, from the evidences mentioned in the verse. In the one case the priest declared the person infected with the leprosy, and unfit for civil society; and, in the other, that the suspected person was clean, and might safely associate with his fellows in civil or religious assemblies. The disciples of our Lord, from having the keys, i.e. the true knowledge of the doctrine of the kingdom of heaven, should be able at all times to distinguish between the clean and the unclean, and pronounce infallible judgment; and this binding and loosing, or pronouncing fit or unfit for fellowship with the members of Christ, being always according to the doctrine of the Gospel of God, should be considered as proceeding immediately from heaven, and consequently as divinely ratified.
That binding and loosing were terms in frequent use among the Jews, and that they meant bidding, and forbidding, granting and refusing, declaring lawful or unlawful, etc., Dr. Lightfoot, after having given numerous instances, thus concludes:
"To these may be added, if need were, the frequent (shall I say?) or infinite use of the phrases, 'acuwr wªmowtar, bound and loosed, which we meet with thousands of times over. But from these allegations the reader sees, abundantly enough, both the frequency and the common use of this phrase, and the sense of it also namely, first, that it is used in doctrine, and in judgments, concerning things allowed or not allowed in the law. Secondly, that to bind is the same with, to forbid, or to declare forbidden. To think that Christ when he used the common phrase, was not understood by his hearers in the common and vulgar sense, shall I call it a matter of laughter, or of madness?
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1996 by Biblesoft)
Even if you want to reject his out of prejudice and anti-Jewish bigotry: Matt 16:13-20
19. The keys of the kingdom of heaven. Keys symbolize authority to open. To thee relates this promise to Peter alone. It refers to the choice of Peter, as first among equals, for officially opening the kingdom (since Pentecost, including the whole sphere of Christian profession; cf. Matt 13:3-52) to Jews (Acts 2:14 ff.) and Gentiles (Acts 10:1-11:18; 15:7,14). Some, however, explain the passage eschatologically, as applying to the reign of the saints over the earth in the Millennium (A. J. McClain, Greatness of the Kingdom,p. 329 f.). Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth. This part of the responsibility was later given to all the disciples (Matt 18:18), who were eventually empowered for the task (John 20:22-23). If John 20:23 be an explanation of the binding and loosing, as meaning remitting and retaining sins, then Acts 10:43 is an instance of its exercise. By the proclamation of the Gospel, announcement is made that acceptance brings loosing from sin's guilt and penalty, and rejection leaves the sinner bound for judgment.
(from The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1962 by Moody Press)
I await your proofs that the early church called itself the Catholic Church and that any of the Apostles believed Peter had universal authority over all other bishops.
| View Parent Message View dfilename Return Home |