Test for ALL Christians and Muslims on this forum!

Discussion in 'Quran and Bible debate' started by webmaster, Apr 15, 2003.

  1. webmaster

    webmaster Administrator Staff Member

    A few Rules just for this one thread.

    1st) The following words may not be used.
    God
    Allah
    Jehovah
    Jesus
    etc
    Don't have a cow yet everybody, read on.

    Most people remember somebody by the greatest thing that they did or that we know about them doing.
    Examples:
    Bill Gates created Microsoft?
    Albert Einstein and E=MC^2?
    The greatest thing we can see before us is the Creation of the Universe and us. So, since we know that the Creator of the Universe is suppose to be the I AM we all are seeking, it is a starting point. We also know that the Creator of the Universe is Holy, So we will use
    The Holy Creator of the Universe!

    There should be NO trouble for any of us here to use the phrase "The Holy Creator of the Universe" when praying unless we have been doing some form of Idol or Satan worship because we all know who the "The Holy Creator of the Universe is" beyond a shadow of a doubt! So to use The Holy Creator of the Universe is praising His Holiness, The Holy Creator of the Universe's Name whatever that may be! This is part of the test for a week-month or forever how long you wish to pray to the The Holy Creator of the Universe asking for the truth in whatever custom/ritual you wish to perfom while speaking directly to The Holy Creator of the Universe. You will also ask the The Holy Creator of the Universe to reveal The Holy Creator of the Universe to you personally along with the truth! If you wish to may also go outside and look at The Holy Creator of the Universe's handywork and praise the simple beauty of it.

    2nd We also know that there is the presence of Evil in this world and a so called Satan. So we will use the phrase
    The Evil Destroyer of the Universe.

    3rd) No Bible or Quran verse's or verse reference's may be used in this thread. No earth or heaven history from the Jewish, Islamic or Christian books may be used. Only the History from the rest of the religions of the world to be used as examples. We can also use any individual who is not religious as examples.

    ------------------------------------------

    Some points I felt to include.

    This is not New Age trash! This is an honest and holy search by whoever wishes to know the truth!

    The word Universe would include Heaven, the earth, mankind, all living creature, the stars and etc etc.

    The purpose of this Test is the search for the Truth by anybody who wishes to undertake it. There isn't no trickery here or false motives to covert anybody to anything except to The Holy Creator of the Universe.

    Any questions so far?

    BTW if you are confused and don't understand then please just choose another topic!

    More later...
     
  2. Alpha

    Alpha New Member

    I'm down for the challenge. Some Muslims might say, "But the Holy Creator of the Universe(A--ah) has already lead me to the truth." Well that's only because you've been biased and not actually open minded. This is a good open minded challenge. Whoelse is down?
     
  3. Naaji

    Naaji New Member

    Well, i havent been biased, i came to religion with an open mind, the holy creator of the universe (swt) brought me into the truth when i asked him for it. When doing salat i cant say "holy creator of the univese" (swt) i have to use the five letter arabic word which is has equivelant meaning to it, however when i say Dua, i will try it..... but what reason are we to do this for?
     
  4. webmaster

    webmaster Administrator Staff Member

    Sorry but that won't do.

    First The Holy Creator of the Universe has all capital letters in the name as a sign of respect. Second it is Spelled correctly also, which you didn't do.

    Second The Holy Creator of the Universe is beyond any book ever written. If you took all the books ever written it would not even amount to a grain of sand compared to all the sands of the earth in comparison to The Holy Creator's thought for 5 seconds of our time. If we assign more to a book then to The Holy Creator of the Universe then we are worshiping a book and a religion of the book.

    Third The Holy Creator of the Universe requires your 100% Worship, nothing more nothing less.

    Fourth The Holy Creator of the Universe does not care about Arabic words, English words, or even Spanish words does He. We can be certain here that The Holy Creator of the Universe does not speak as we know it. That would mean that The Holy Creator of the Universe has a tongue, lungs, vocal cords and a human brain,etc. So to use a foreign language name means you are not worshiping The Holy Creator of the Universe but really an Arabic Word. I have explained who The Holy Creator of the Universe is and everybody knows who it is. 70% of the US believes in a The Holy Creator of the Universe!

    If you are unable to complete the test then please move on. Thanks!
     
  5. webmaster

    webmaster Administrator Staff Member

    What is the nature of ??? according to Hinduism?
    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/FAQ/ques6.html

    A link to show people worshipping the creation instead of The Holy Creator of the Universe.
    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/Temples/

    Science in Scriptures???
    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/Articles/Scripture/Veda.html


    These Links will explain something about the human race in general and religions.
    The religion being used here for the case example is Hinduism.

    more later....
     
  6. Naaji

    Naaji New Member

    That is fine by me, sorry, but salat has to be in arabic, because you have to recite Al-Qur'an... i was willing to say "Holy Creator of the Universe" at any other time though, because he doesnt mind what we call him as long as it is not a deregatory term and sings his parise and glory.
     
  7. webmaster

    webmaster Administrator Staff Member

    Daily Brain Washing!

    On to the more important things.

    Seems we have ran into a problem already.

    1st. How do we know that Holy Creator of the Universe is the same one that the Hindu's are referring to?

    2nd. Do we give the Holy Creator of the Universe a name to make sure we are talking about the same one? Nope because the the Holy Creator of the Universe has no name in any earthly language, that would be a bases for a cultural religion and it would be unable to move beyond the culture it was founded in without worshiping the culture. The the Holy Creator of the Universe is beyond regional cultures!

    3rd Is it possible that Holy Creator of the Universe was revealing Himself to the Hindu's but most of their heart's was too hardened to fully hear it?

    4th. How can we trust anything that their scripture says? What if the Evil Destroyer of the Universe gets into their scriptures and distorts it for his gain? We have to find something to separate (mankind & the Evil Destroyer of the Universe) from the Holy Creator of the Universe and what He is revealing to us.

    more later........
     
  8. webmaster

    webmaster Administrator Staff Member

    How to Convert to HINDUISM
    http://www.himalayanacademy.com/books/hbh/hbh_ch-5.html
    You know what is missing here, HOLY.

    So less have a look in the dictionary! Please excuse me if there any particular reference to a particular religious sect for said terms used here. It's from the dictionary.

    Spiritually whole or sound; of unimpaired innocence and virtue; free from sinful affections; pure in heart; pious; irreproachable; guiltless;

    Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary 2002

    Webster's Online Dictionary 1828
    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000

    This is going to require a Lot more work!

    more later.....
     
  9. padwinlearner

    padwinlearner New Member

    The biggest difference - in my opinion

    I think the major difference, other than the identity of The Holy Creator of the Universe, is that in Christianity, The Holy Creator of the Universe is reaching down to man - in Islam, The Holy Creator of the Universe, man is trying to reach up to God through works (5 daily prayers, Haadj (spelling?), etc.). Christianity is based entirely on forgiveness, Islam is based on doing more right than wrong. The two views are diametrically opposed.
     
  10. Lion123

    Lion123 New Member

    Satan as Destroyer?

    First off, I like the idea of using the phrase "Holy Creator of the Universe" for the Supreme Being. As long as people continue to get hung up on names, we need to search for neutral terms that people can agree on. The Creator creates and so He is the Creator. There's not much room for argument there.

    I am a little confused by the epithet "Evil Destroyer of the Universe" for Satan. Satan is a creature and thus has no power other than that endowed by the Creator. As far as I know, the Creator has not endowed Satan with the power to destroy the universe. Certainly, Satan is a tempter. Also, he does have the power to ruin souls and to corrupt mankind, so he is a clear enemy for all people. But to call him the "Destroyer of the Universe" seems to give him far more power than he really has.

    I disagree with the rule that people should refrain from citing scripture whether it be the Bible, the Quran, and the Torah. These books are important sources of wisdom and evidence of the Creator. It is not in the example of any of the Prophets to abandon Divine Scripture. Even if we disagree about the relative validity of these sources, that is hardly enough reason to justify putting them aside, even for the sake of argument.
     
  11. Lion123

    Lion123 New Member

    Re: the biggest difference

    One user, padwinlearner, writes "in Islam, The Holy Creator of the Universe, man is trying to reach up to God through works (5 daily prayers, Haadj (spelling?), etc.). Christianity is based entirely on forgiveness, Islam is based on doing more right than wrong. The two views are diametrically opposed."

    Padwin is right when he says that Islam is based on doing right. I think Padwin was trying to remember the five pillars which are declaration of belief, five daily prayers, giving aid to the poor, fasting, and Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca). Yet even though these form the foundation of Islam, they are not wholly unique to Islam. That is to say, Christianity also attaches merit to belief, prayer, fasting, charity, even pilgrimage. In fact, much of the practice of medieval Christianity bears great resemblance to Islam. These early Christians prayed regularly for salvation. They fasted during Lent and at other times. Many gave a tithe, a tenth of their income, to the church. Christians, both ancient and modern, made pilgrimage to holy sites. The Canterbury Tales are a great example of Christians making a journey to visit a holy site.

    Looking at the history of Christianity and its teachings, I cannot find a basis for the claim that Islam and Christianity are diametrically opposed. Forgiveness is certainly important to Christians. But Muslims too seek the forgiveness of their Lord because they know their deeds are imperfect. Muslims also acknowledge that it is by the mercy of the Creator that they enter heaven. Muslims do not expect to enter heaven without the forgiveness of their Creator.
     
  12. Alpha

    Alpha New Member

    Yes, but you are forgetting 1 thing. Muslims do not believe Jesus died for the sins of the world, which is important. In Isaiah 53, it says the Messiah is to die, but yet Muslims say Jesus did not die. Muslims believe you get to heaven by doing more good than bad. In other words, they rely on their righteousness for salvation. Christians put their salvation on the blood of Jesus. We are not saved by the good works that we do, but we are saved UNTO good works. Faith is nothing without good works. You have to do good works in order to prove your faith, but your good works do not save you. The blood of Jesus Christ saves you. It's not what you do in order to get to heaven. It's what God has already done, by sacrificing His only Begotten Son.

    The Holy Creator of the Universe is not Allah!
     

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