A smile to start my answer to the previous posts. Why a smile!! Because, the thing I love most about this forum, is the minute you think you have caught up with the posts and questions, another is found. Just like right now, and the reason I am smiling. It's now 1:15am in the morning, everyone else is in bed, and I am now going to try and make sense of writing this post. But it is all worth it. May God lead us all to Truth and therefore to Himself, as we dialogue and discuss these together.
What about these prphecies from Isiah, what d they mean to you as a christian, who is prophecised in them?
Omya, I spoke of some of those prophecies to someone else and so to enable me to quickly answer all your questions, here are my replies regarding all of Isaiah, as well as the verses you mention
Isaiah 60
This has to be one of the most beautiful chapters in the Old Testament. It is a passage that Christians think of as being fulfilled in the future. That means, it is written in the Prophet's time as prophecy, but it's fulfilment is in the future.
Always, you need to read a verse or chapter of the Bible (as you do the Qur'an I presume) in the context it is written in. So in discussing the verse you have mentioned... vs 7, you need to read all the chapter, and also see it as one chapter amongst a group of chapters explaining something very important, both to Israel, to whom the prophecy was given, and to those around the world (like us) who would read it.
Isaiah as a book is broken up into a number of parts and to understand them, you have to know that the prophets sometimes spoke prophecy that would have immediate fulfilment and prophecy that had fulfilment in the future.. sometimes even thousands of years in the future.
chapters 1-35 begin with a vision of the Holy One.. (chapter 6) the one true God, who is above all, over all and THE ONLY God who is forever worshipped. He is seen in heaven, high and lifted up and worshipped by the angels.
Isaiah's response is to see himself as a man of unclean lips, of woe, of inablity to draw near to the heavenly vision he has seen. God's response is to provide the atonement for his sin (necessary punishment for God to be true to Himself) and to then command Isaiah to go and be a prophet to the nations.
Chapters 7-12 then discuss the coming of Immanuel "God with us" which is the clearest and most fullest discussion that oneday God, who is THE one and only to be praised and worshipped, will come as man to this earth.
In amongst all these passages God speaks out against Israel. Why? Because according to Genesis 12, as believed by Christians, God had called Moses to be a people belonging to Himself, who He would bless, so that they could carry the blessing of God and the knowledge of His Salvation to the world. They were not doing that, and the witness to the world was being messed up as a result. God was angry, and He told them so, and He warned them that punishment would follow? Always, it's the honour of God which is at stake, when His people don't obey Him.
Having dealt with Israel and warning them of judgement, chapters 13-24 talk of judgement amongst the nations. But please keep in mind, whenever we read of judgement in the Bible, it's always with the understanding of warning so that people will turn to God. There is ultimate punishment which will occur after Judgement Day, but when God judges on earth, it's always to be seen as a warning, and gives the opportunity for repentance and restored relationship with God.
Chapters 24-35 then discuss this more fully, by talking about the purposes of God in dealing with Israel, the nations and therefore all of mankind.
Throughout all these verses, there are constant prophecies of a king who is coming whose kingdom is without end. Finally, once that kingdom comes, chapter 35 describes what it will be like.
Chapters 36-39 then give pure historical facts.. all of which are collaborated by history
Chapters 40-66 then show Visions of Splendour which have a much later fulfilment date than at Isaiah's time. These are visions of what God WILL do in the future.. in our time, to bring the same purposes He had spoken of through Isaiah in the first part of the book, and now speaks to us in our time in the second half of the book. However, it's a picture painted within the back drop of all that had happened, was happening and would happen to Israel, since she was the nation he had determined to bring His grace to the world through. (please note, Christians believe, that the Israel God has chosen, is now revealed through the Church. Romans 10 teaches us that we are all children of Abraham and grafted into the nation through which the world would turn to Him)
chapters 40-48 take us beyond the exile to Babylon. This had not happened yet and this is both immediate prophecy (chapter 39) and future prophecy for the Israelites (chapter 40) when he speaks of their restoration back to the land God promised, but it's also far future too, as it speaks again of Jesus coming (heralded by the words of John the Baptist) and fulfilled in Matthew 3:1)
The coming of God to this earth to bring mankind back to himself is furthur seen in Chapters 49 -55 which are what we call the Servant passages. God Himself was going to come as a Servant, and His people are called to be servants in the world.
Scattered amongst these verses are a combination of prophecy, judgement, the need for consequences of sin and the provision of God to take away the consequences of sin. Notice, it's not just the nations who are judged, it's Israel too. No one stands before the Holy and Righteous Only God of all nations. Even those nations who serve other gods, are told "I am God, there is no other" and this is repeated many times in different ways in these chapters.
Chapters 56-59 state very loudly.. If all have sinned and come short of the glory of the most high God.. then all are in need of redemption. See, it's not just the acts we do which makes us sinners.. it's that our very nature is defilied. I know Islam has a very strong sense of ceremonial clensing being necessary to deal with the defiliement of the body. God says, that our very nature is defiled, and therefore NOTHING we do, will ever take that defilement away.. it depends totally on God.. and these verses show that. In the middle of these verses, we are shown the suffering servant, who Christians believe is Jesus Christ, God come in the flesh, to do for man, what man could not do for Himself. Chapters 52 and 53 leave no doubt as to the suffering and death this redeemer would go through for the sins of mankind.
Then finally we come to your question about chapter 60
Found amongst chapters 60 -66, it's the chapters that deal with the restoration of mankind. Man cannot do for himself to bring about true relationship with God again, (remove the defilement in his nature caused by his sin and disobedience), so God does it for Him, throught the death and resurrection of Jesus, who is God Himself, come in a human body.
In these chapters we see the result of all that Jesus has done, though at the time of writing and of the prophecy, it was what Isaiah saw WOULD happen.
Christians believe the suffering servant has come and is now ascended with the father. The church is now the new Israel, and all believers the world over are charged with the responsiblitily to do what God first told Abraham to do.. Be a blessing to ALL nations. Shine the light of God out into the darkness and the nations of the world will come and join you in worship.
Verse 7 is one of many verses in this chapter (60) speaking of all nations and people's coming to worship God together. But to whom will they come? Jerusalem the city of God has both a spiritual and a physical place to Christians. The city of Jerusalem physically has many mentions in the Bible, but the city of Jerusalem spiritually has many more. Often referred to as Zion, we see again a picture of this vision in Revelation 21-22. Please read these chapterr. By the Light of the Glory of God, the nations will walk together in peace and harmony Nothing impure will enter it , nothing that is shameful and deceitful. Those who go there will have not fear of defilement. The throne of God AND of the Lamb will be there.. an everpresent reminder, that we can make our own way to heaven, only by God dealing with our defilement could the nations gather there together.
I realise this is a VERY LONG answer, and for that I apologize on one hand, and hope you understand on the other, that not to give you a full answer, would probably confuse you more.
Yes.. Isaiah 60 has some prophetic pictures of a restored Arabic nation amongst other things... but they are coming to worship the one true God in zion and this prophecy forms one part of a much larger one.. to know how and why they are
Also it didn't help.....giving other examples doesn't help, because these are examples of finite things, I can't accept that my God, the creator died and raised himself
Can I ask you why you can't accept that God, as the Creator could have died and raised from the dead Omya? Just think for a minute about all the things we have discussed this week, and ask yourself "why you can't accept it". Just think for a second if this was true, and Jesus is God, and God did love you enough to come to earth in a human body die for you.. why should you not accept it?"
Tell me about these prophecies:
All the prophecies in this part of Ezekiel speak of the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusaleum. Remember, it was written at a time when the People of Israel were in Exile in Babylon. The people were feeling abandoned and lost. and this vision rekindled hope to a hopeless people, who expected to see this vision literally fulfilled.
Chapters 40-43 show detailed instructions for the rebuilding of the Temple. (to be built on the sites of the earlier Temples, and the place where God would be worshipped) It represented all that Israel had lost when she went into exile, and this vision saw in chapter 43:1-12, the glory, the Lord, returning to Jerusalem ( to understand this part of the vision, read also Chapters 8 -11, when Ezekiel describes the derparture from the Old Temple of the visible expression of God's presence. The gross sins of His people, drove the Lord out and saw the Temple and the City destroyed. Now, with the land purified and the people made holy, the glory returns to Jerusalem.
Chapter 44 describes the Temple duties of the priests and Levites. (which included the necessary blood sacrifice for the sins of the people and notice the very significant words God uses in relation to the Levites who went far from the Lord when Israel went astray.. the Leaders and priests who did nothing to stop Israel's wondering into idolatry. who are not allowed to offer the sacrifices because of their sin "They must bear the consequences of their sin, declares the soverign Lord")
Chapter 45-46 describe the sacred district which is in the charge of the priests and the prince and the responsiblities of each
Chapter 47 describes a great river flowing from the Temple. The lovely thing is it starts as a trickle as it leaves the Temple and becomes a mighty flowing river, bringing life wherever it flows on it's course to the Dead Sea.
Chapter 48 The final part of this vision.. that of a fully restored Land of Israel, the regathered 12 tribes of Israel and the new name of the City "The Lord is There".
Are these the answers you were looking for Omya?