Christian/Muslim ThreadsA Proof :Quran is original and cannot be changedBISMILLAHIRRAHMAANIRRAHIIM Yes my friend, I can see now. Let see. Muslims say. You are not A Scholar, you've never learned "Asbab al Nuzul", You did not trace the interpretation from Hadiths, and you made up everyting to match up your own believe. That too much subjective. We reject you own interpretation because you are not CAPABLE enough to do it.
Done. Which one you mean done? you've just picked up one verse, you translate it and you use your own conclusion. That's the wrong way to judge a verse in Al-Qur'an. You have to see the main concept of Al-Qur'an and you have to look closer the saying of the Prophet (saw) in the hadith about it. So you are not done yet. That verse is rejects your claim. I see that you show the Arabic. But you seem to scare to display the translation of it for everybody to read it. Not every people here understand Arabic. You don't give a chance to the readers to learn the verses them-selves. The translation I mean, is admitted by Muslims and used everywhere in this earth. We do NOT need your OWN interpretation. Because you are not the LEARNED one. I don't dare my self to translate or interpret the verses . I trust the scholars who learned deeply about AlQur'an. Again, we Muslims reject your "made up interpretation" of surah 4:171. I don't know who you are, but I doubt that you are an Islamic scholar. I learned Islam, by not in scholar degree. So, special for this case (about verses inside Al-Qur'an), translation or Interpretation of the verses with you own opinion is REJECTED. There are a lots of Muslims expert about Al-Qur'an out there. They know better everything about Al-Qur'an, and that's what we gonna use. I'll cut and paste from the people whom we can rely on (example: Translation, the explanation of veres, hadiths) So, if you want to debate me, do NOT use you own Interpretation or even translation. This way is good for the readers to make their fair judgement.
As I say, I want everybody read the translation of it since not all people know Arabic. I am not gonna use my own head for translation or interpretation as I told you. So, I will let everybody follow our discussion. How ever, I will do what you want. For people who wants to have the Dictionaty of Al-Qur'an (in pdf), please visit: http://www.emuslim.com/Quran/Translation_English.asp This image below is translation word by word surah 4:171. I picked from the website above. (see, I let everybody know the source). Let me give you the transliterations. - yaa ahlal = O People - al-kitaabi = (of) the Book! - La = (Do) not - taghluu = commit excess - fi = in - diinukum = your religion - wa la = and not - taqu lu = you say - 'ala =about - allah = Allah - illa = except - al-haq = the truth. - innamaa = Only - al masiih = the Messiah, - 'isa = Isa, - abu = son - maryama = of Maryam, - rasuulullah = (was) a Messenger of Allah - wa kaliimatuhu = and His word - al-qaahaa = which He conveyed - ilaa = to - maryama = Maryam - wa ruuhu = and a spirit - minhu = from Him. - fa aminuu = So believe - billahi = in Allah - wa rusulihi = and His Messengers. - wa laa = And (do) not - taquuluu = say, - tsalatsatu = “Three;” - antahuu = desist - khairan = (it is) better - lakum = for you. - innamaa= Only - allahu = Allah - ilaahu = (is) God - waahiduu = One. - subhaanahu = Sacrosanct is He - an = that - yakuuna = He (should) have - lahu = for Him - wa laduu = a son. - llahu = To Him (belongs) - maa = whatever - fii = (is) in - assaamaawaati = the heavens - wamaa = and whatever - fii = (is) in - al ardhi = the earth. - wa kafabillahi = And Allah (is) sufficient - wa kiilan = (as) a Disposer of affairs. Now I rely on these translators to translate it. 004.171 YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender. SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector. The tafsir (interpretation). Other that the previous one. This people knows better that you and me. Muhammad Asad. Please visit http://www.geocities.com/masad02/004 **Lit., "His word which He conveyed unto Mary and a soul from Him". According to Tabari, the "word" (kalimah) was "the announcement (risalah) which God bade the angels to convey to Mary, and God's glad tiding to her" (a reference to 3: 45) - which justifies the rendering of kalimatuhu as "[the fulfilment of] His promise". (See also note on 3: 39.) As regards the expression, "a soul from Him" or "created by Him", it is to be noted that among the various meanings which the word ruh bears in the Qur’an (e.g., "inspiration" in 2: 87 and 253), it is also used in its primary significance of "breath of life", "soul", or "spirit": thus, for instance, in 32: 9, where the ever-recurring evolution of the human embryo is spoken of: "and then He forms him [i.e., man] and breathes into him of His spirit" - that is, endows him with a conscious soul which represents God's supreme gift to man and is, therefore, described as "a breath of His spirit". In the verse under discussion, which stresses the purely human nature of Jesus and refutes the belief in his divinity, the Qur’an points out that Jesus, like all other human beings, was "a soul created by Him". Nothing about SON OF GOD concept inside Al-Qur'an. Another argument from me, surah Al-Ikhlas is TOTALLY rejects the concept of SON OF GOD. http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/112.htm 1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4. And there is none like unto Him. Your interpretation is totally wrong and rejected. So those are all my arguments and references. To be continued. I will see the webs you refer to me and will response inshaALLAH. Please hold you reply a bit. Salaam |
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