ArchivedIs John 3:16 actually an invitation open to all?Sorry to hear about the difficulties life has brought to you recently, Hogcaller. You and your family will be in my prayers. So all that to say that "the foundation of the world" doesn’t mean "some time in eternity past" but rather "a certain point of time at the beginning of human history". I guess I don’t have a problem with that. But it still doesn’t address the fact that God has prepared things for a select group before that group made a decision to accept Him. But that has more to do with my next question - what is meant by "you". But does the plurality of the word "you" in those passages necessarily mean that it should be taken as a generality? If I’m speaking to a group of 12 basketball players, and I say "You are basketball players", can that statement not be applied individually to each of those players. So even though "you" is plural, its implication is singular. Is it not an obvious conclusion? Time is an element of creation. God exists outside of, and is not bound by, His creation. Therefore God exist outside of time, and He is not bound by it. How else could He "know the end from the beginning"? No. God knowing what you will choose does not mean that He has removed all options for you to choose from. From your perspective, do you not still have the same options whenever you make a choice to do something? Here’s an analogy: It’s a sweltering summer day, and you have to drive across town to pick something up. You have 4 choices: ride with the windows down and not use the A/C, ride with the windows down and use the A/C, ride with the windows up and not use the A/C, or ride with the windows up and use the A/C. Two of your choices are silly, but they are available options to you nonetheless. You choose to ride with the windows up and use the A/C. God knew that you would choose that option. Does that mean that the other 3 options were not available to you? Did you not still have to make a choice? Of course you did. Just because God knows what you will choose, it does not mean that you do not have the free will to make a choice. It just means that, whatever you choose, God already knew that that was what you would pick. It is unconditional because He has given the option of salvation to everyone. Regardless of who He knows will take that offer, He has still made it a choice for everyone. Yes, I do. Our only difference is that I believe God can know ahead of time who will accept Him, but that that doesn’t change the fact that we are all responsible to make the right choice. Perhaps it was to put it in terms that man could understand. If God came down and said "I know that in the future, you will sin against me", and then He proceeded to destroy everybody, would that not confirm your thought that an all-knowing God necessitates the removal of free will? But since God put it in such terms, it still seems to us, from our perspective, that our freedom to make choices has resulted in the consequences that follow. For Abraham, it was a test of his faith. Sure, God knew He would pass, but if He didn’t test him, would that not have undermined the concept of free will. God worded these things the way He did, so that we would know that it is our choices that bring the consequences, not that the consequences are a result of what God has already predetermined. I respond with the following passage:
I must watch my step here as I say this, but here goes: Of course God is responsible for imperfection in all its forms. Before you call me a heretic, think about it (and don’t use the old "God is not the author of evil" verse on me – believe me I know that one, and I thought long and hard about it before saying this). Is God not the Creator? Is there anything in all of creation that exists that was not made by God? Does this not include Satan, the father of evil? So if God created Satan, then is He not the creator of the father of evil? I did not say He is the father of evil, or the creator of evil, but He is the creator of the father of evil. All evil/sin in the world is a direct result of the sin of Satan, right? And Satan’s existence is a direct result of God’s creation, right? Do you follow me? I feel like a heretic even saying it, but since sin would not have existed without a creative act by God, then it is correct to say He is ultimately responsible for it. This thought is further solidified in my mind when you consider that the one who is responsible for sin must be the one to deal with it. And God will deal with it at the end when He throws sin and death and hell into the lake of fire. God creating angels and man with the ability to sin is not a breach of His “not the author of evil” statement, so I think I’m OK in saying what I’ve said. In fact, if God did not give us the ability to chose right or wrong, then what would have been the point of creation? He created us to glorify Himself, and He is most glorified when we make the choice to do right and serve Him. There’s no glory in it if we are doing the only thing we know how to do. So in order for God to get the most glory, He had to give us the ability to sin. |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame