Christian/Muslim ThreadsMiracle of Quran...excuseless....what do u have to say?H2O wrote:Loki wrote:The original Quranic text had no vowel marks......
What relivance is this ? The Hebrew and Aramaic scripture of the Bible orinially did not contain vowel marks or diacritical marking for pronounciation.
Applied to supposed prophecy it does have relevance, especially if the lack of vowels can benefit your translation. And their are enough other arguments wich brings this supposed miracle into question... another one for example is that even if this was written down correct, then the fact still stands that the quran was written long after that defeat happend. The conquering of palestine happend in 614 and the final counteroffensive of the Byzantines ended in 628. While the first official quran was edited out by Uthman and Zaid somewhere between 644 and 656.
Loki wrote:Thus, the Arabic word Sayaghlibuna, "they shall defeat," could easily have been rendered, with the change of two vowels, Sayughlabuna, "they (i.e. Romans) shall be defeated." Since vowel points were not added until some time after this event, it could have been quite possible for a scribe to deliberately tamper with the text, forcing it to become a prophetic statement.
" Could Have Been, Possible"......there is one word for all this, Conjecture. The same conjecture can be applied to the Bible as it originally did not contain diacritical marks for pronounciation.
yes of course, conjecture, i don't say i have the proof for it... but it certaintly opens up a possibly making it a more weaker statement of miracle then it firmly beliefs it is. Just like in a court of law if opponents can make a case against it, based upon good arguments, then theirs a chance the jury will look the other way... your word against mine, you have as little proof as i have in trying to proof that it is a miracle. So it's erroneous, you can either gullible believe that it is a miracle, stay agnostic about it or utterly reject it... based upon other so called claimed miracles i choose the latter.
Loki wrote:When we rewrite the English transcription of the Arabic, eliminating the vowels which aren't written, but only understood, the phrase looks like this: "BSM ALLH ALRHMN ALRHIM", which counts out to 19 letters. However, there is a little mark in Arabic grammar called a "shadda" which means that the letter underneath the mark is doubled. "ALLaH" or "ALLH" has a "shadda" on the second "L", and could (should?) be written "ALLLH" which would then make 20 letters.
Your missing a letter. It is called the alif maqsoorah which is rasm ie a "Y" consonant prounced "aa" in "ALLLAAH that is not written in script. Its just some food for thought thats all. I am not trying to apporve or disprove anything.
Yet independently then, you just did.
Loki wrote:Quote:
Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? (Quran, 78:6-7)
What do you think the earth looks like? i've never seen the earth look like a bed. You believe in a flat earth my friend?
Does the verse say anthing about what the earth LOOKS like ? Earth is like a bed, it is something that we rest in and obtain comfort from with in.
acctually yes it does say that, we made the earth as a bed... and look at the following verses also describing the shape of the earth:
And the earth, We have made it a wide extent; how well have We then spread (it) out. [51]
God made earth like a carpet spread out…[20]
The earth is like a carpet spread out…[43.10]
Allah has spread out the earth…[51]
Allah made the earth a carpet…[71]
Allah made the earth as a wide expanse(as a bed)…[78]
put two and two together
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