Sevryn45 wrote:We're not ignorant about Islam, we will be able to answer your questions; as for H20 he's been refuted on these boards over and over again; H20 has ignored evidance from Quran, Sira, Tabari and Ibn Kathir those are the premier Islamic sources and Muslims agree that they are all authentic.
Now as for evidence from Quran, what evidence are speaking about ? You intend to debate us with a translation ? We are coming from the actual arabic ?
You are dishonest with your translations H2O from day one everybody can see this.
When Muslims Beat ther wives, their behavior is supported by the Quoran and the Hadith Laws; so in fact they're actually being Good Muslims.
Wrong. A man cannot just hit his wife cause he feels like it. It has to be under certain criteriors as the Quran mention on the behalf of a woman.
Where does the quran state this, what criteria does the quran state you need before you beat your wife? Pls show us
ROme wrote:"
Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."
Quran, chapter 4, verse 34
Could you show me this in the Christian bible?
Oh yes this is what I like. Lets get into it raw Rome.
I want you to show us where in the Arabic its say
men have authority over women ?
الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاء بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللّهُ وَاللاَّتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلاَ تَبْغُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلاً إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا
الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاء Tell us does this say "Men have authority over women" or does it say "Men are maintainers upon women"?
What is this suppose to prove? How would a woman in the 21st cenutry feel reading that she is to be maintained, and beaten if she is unmanageable, she is to be treated like a child who can't control herself, how would you feel as a woman reading this drivel?
قَوَّامُونَ I would like to know how this means authority. Come on Rome, this is our language here [Johnny walker H2O do you know who he is? do you know who a traitor to his culture is? Someone who is so ashamed of his race he wants to be something else? How would your family feel seeing you describe yourself as an arab? Did anyone from your family turn up for your wedding H2O? ]. I am going to pound on you cause you should know better being that you can read the Arabic and قَوَّامُونَ does not mean authority it mean caretakers, maintainers, providers.
بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ does this say anything about having authorit over women or does it say "because Allah has favored some of them (men) above others (men)" ? بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ Isnt this in the masculine refering to men being over other men and not women ?
Good grief who on earth would read that as referring to other men?
This is what the neutral arabic translator says using the rules of arabic:
The men are caretaker on the women for what he preferred to some of on some and for what they consumed their moneys then the good deeds , the obedients are preservative ??????????? for what he preserved to and who you are afraid of their recalcitrance Then preach to them and relinquish them in the couches and beat them if they obeyed you you would not wrong them a way that الللهَ was High big
Men are the caretakers of women because they are spending their money on them and the obedients are preservative (of what? H2O what are they preserving?) Where in that translation does it imply men being over other men? In that case are men spending their monies on other men?, are they the caretakers of other men?, are the other men being obedient and preservative? (preservative of what H2O? LOL do you realise how your interpretation could be interpreted for the gay lobby?, since you are saying it's men over men,
it also says relinquish them in the couches you do realise it could then mean it's ok for men to be with other men using your rules of interpretation don't you? where do you think you are going with this? Does your sheikh know this is how you interpret said verse, men over men???)
And as for وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ that you boasted as "beat them" when since the imperative اضرب meant to hit more than once as the english word "BEAT" conveys a habitual notion. Does not اضرب mean spank, tap, hit also ?
This is becoming ridiculous what does the neutral arabic translator say utilising the rules of arabic:
وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ
Beat them
Nothing more nothing less.
This is a religion in pure arabic a child can understand, there is no hidden meaning, it is in black and white as clear as day. Is she a child that she needs to be spanked? Do you see your wife as a child who can't do anything for herself and needs to be spanked when she is unmanageable??? good grief what kind of stupidity is this?
This is what I have noticed. ALL OF YOU ! When a muslim sister posts on these threads I see all these Christian men rush to debate a sister and then try playing the gender role of lame emotions tactics cause you think she is easy. But when you have to debate with a muslim man not so much of you jump in the ring to debate.
If your presence here H2O were a boxing match you have been knocked out by every opponent so far. Like I said I have not seen anybody embarassed as much as you in a newsgroup yet comes up for more, were you the punching bag at school? Do you honestly believe all this counts as your good works for entry into the brothel you call paradise? (When will you discuss the delights of paradise H2O we have been waiting for months to see how you are going re-interpret re-translate and insult your eminent scholars and imams yet again)
SisterW may Allah strengthen you sis.
you mean like he has strengthened you? It is very revealing how you want responses targeted at you and not other muslims, are you worried because you know the faith cannot stand up to scrutiny?