Christian/Muslim ThreadsWas Jesus Perfect God and Perfect Man at the Same Time?pastor, I appreciate your honesty in regards to your perspective on Jesus the Messiah. You don't have to win a Muslim over to Christianity. Islam suffices. It's rare I run into people like yourself saying Jesus wasn't God but a Man. I'm very familiar with the History of Christianity such as the Nazarenes...Ebonites...Paulicians....Essenes...the Official Church before the name Roman Catholic Church etc. See this is factual in regards to Al Tawhid (Monotheism) taught by the early Christians. They rejected the Trinity doctrine and they all believed that Jesus was a Man...nothing more along with being the Messiah ....and a Messenger...Servant...Prophet of Allaah (God). Islam is to Submit one's Will to the Will of Allaah (God) Almighty and do what's pleasing to Him Alone. Islam believes that there is only one name for God -- Allah. Therefore, any other names -- Yahweh, Christ -- refer to a "false god" or idol. As Muslims we are not simply substituting the word "Allah" for "Christ" as if they were interchangeable terms. We are making a true claim about the nature of God. Christians claim that Allaah (God) is triune and that Christ is the second person in that Trinity. The Qur'aan states that those who believe Jesus (Isa, in Arabic) was Allaah (God's) Son are not true believers (see Sura 5:15-20). This is merely not simply a doctrinal dispute over what name God is to be called, it is a dispute of who God actually is. Some Christians believe that those who don't acknowledge Christ as God are not worshipping the One true God. We, Muslims, on the other hand, believe that Christians are making an idol of Christ. Rationally speaking, one of us is wrong.
This is absolutely true. I agree. The Qur'aan agrees. Jesus was Al Masih (the Messiah). See as Muslims we respect Isa (Jesus) and honor him as what he was. We don't say he's God or the son of God true. We believe what he says...in Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.' " If Jesus would not even allow himself to be called good, he certainly would not claim divine qualities. Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say "Your God". He said "our God", which includes Jesus as the creation of God which indicates he had a God too. Yet Christians say the bible says he's God. No such verses exist in the bible that says Jesus is God. Do Christians seriously believe in what the bible says about Jesus? For instance: Jesus got himself a reputation as a “drunkard and a friend of sinners” Can we believe Jesus was a drunkard? In Matthew 11:19 "The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." If the bible is correct about everything that's written about Jesus can we believe that Jesus was beside himself. What does that mean? In Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself." You can’t really be very ‘adjusted’ to your world if it says you ‘have a devil’ and ends by nailing you up naked to a stake of wood Nah!! no Christians would believe such a thing about Jesus truly. Jesus was a Man....nothing more along with being the Messiah, a Prophet, Messenger, Servant of Allaah (God). Does the bible confirms this yes. In Acts 2:22 "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:" In John 8:40 Jesus said, "But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham." Others in the bible believed Jesus was a Prophet. In Matthew 14:5 "And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet." In other verses in the bible such as Matthew 21:11 "And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee." Luke 24:19 "And he (Jesus) said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:" In this verse did Jesus reject for his disciples for calling him a prophet? John 6:14 "Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world." There are alot more verses in the bible that says that Jesus was a Prophet of Allaah (God). The Qur'aan confirms this. "O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allâh (God) aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) A Messenger of Allâh, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allâh is One Allâh: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allâh as a Disposer of affairs." [Surah 4:171] "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Messengers; We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a Messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride? Some ye called imposters, and others ye slay!" [Surah 2:87] "Those Messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: to one of them Allâh spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus, the son of Mary, We gave Clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allâh had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after Clear (Signs) had come to them but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allâh had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allâh fulfilleth His plan." [Surah 2:253] "And Allâh will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel, And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): 'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allâh's leave: and I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allâh's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe; (I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allâh, and obey me.' " [Surah 3:48-50] "Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allâh doth make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" [Surah 5:75] So Allaah (God) says both Jesus and his mother used to eat food to emphasize that Jesus wasn't Allaah (God). Allaah (God) doesn't eat. He's not in need of anything. Allaah (God) is Self Sufficient, He's not in need of drink and food nor does He suffer from fatique. Allâh! Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursî (Throne) extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursî.] (Al-Baqarah 2:255) In the bible in Matthew 12 it clearly states that Jesus was a Servant of Allaah (God). Matthew 12:18 "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles." Jesus declares that he is the Son of Man and anyone who knows the torah as the Israelites to whom Jesus spoke will know that a son of man cannot be God. The Bible declares that God is neither a man nor a son of man. "God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent ... " Num. 23:19 and in 1 Sam. 15:29 "And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent." "I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I [am] God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city." (Hosea 11:9) Job 25:1 "Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said, Dominion and fear are with him, he maketh peace in his high places. Is there any number of his armies? and upon whom doth not his light arise? How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?" Who is the son of Man, Jesus the Messiah. One day Jesus will ask those who worship Jesus as God instead of worshipping Allaah (God), Why did you address your devotions to me? Did I ever direct you to do it, or propose myself as an object of religious worship? Did I not uniformly and to the last set you an example myself of praying to the Father, to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God? John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." When my disciples requested me to teach them to pray did I teach them to pray to myself or to any other person but the Father? Luke 11:1-2 " And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth." Jesus will say, did I ever call myself God, or tell you that I was the maker of the world and to be worshipped? Allaah (God) in Qur'aan tells us that He will ask Jesus infront of his worshippers did Jesus tell them to worship him instead of Allaah (God). "And behold! Allâh will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allâh'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things." [Surah 5:116-117] Allaah (God) Almighty revealed to Muhammad, in the Qur'ân, the truth about Al-Masih (the Messiah) `Eesa Ben Maryam (Jesus, the Son of Mary). Remember in the bible Jesus said many will call him Lord and they will come to him and say Lord, Lord, haven't we in your Name did such and such. Afterwards Jesus will say leave me because you practice lawlessness. Who calls Jesus Lord, Christians do. |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame