Homosexual Discussion ForumHomosexuality and the BibleBadme, pi is approximately 3, however to be more exact pi is 3.1415 so if you are seeking exact dimensions for the bronze sea you can figure it out for yourself. A Biblical cubit was 18”. The Bible is accurate in it description of the bronze sea and since pi had not been defined in Moses’ time I don’t see your point.
justforfun000, I am not sure this forum is the place to teach a full course in the Bible. However, I will give it a try.
The Torah was given to one nation and that nation was the Hebrews. In reference to Deuteronomy 21:18-21 Jews were not the only culture where parents had supreme authority over their children including life and death decisions. So to pick this one as an example only demonstrates your ignorance of world history. Chinese and other cultures gave parents (usually the father) the right to decide if a rebellious son who continually lived a wastrel life was fit to live. The same was true for Roman citizens at the time of Christ.
Is this law valid for our culture? No, because we live under a different set of laws. In fact after the Babylonian captivity even the Jews did not have this authority over their own children. Under Jewish law the High Priest could condemn and sentence a man to death for heresy yet the High Priest at the time of Jesus had to get Rome to do his wet work.
Leviticus 18 is part of the morality code. This section of Scripture deals with sexual morality or what the Council of Jerusalem referred to as “fornication”. And this section is the basis for Paul’s teaching in the NT.
Genesis 19 is a historical account and has nothing to do with teaching moral or family values. If you take the time to study the fruit of Lot’s incest the resulting nations were some of Israel’s enemies. The object of the account has more to do with the consequences of certain behaviors like drunkenness and incest than showing some behaviors are approved. Also this account precedes the giving of the Law by over 400 years.
The word abomination means: ABOMINATION
ABOMINATION
(a-bom-i-na'-shun) (piggul, to`ebhah, sheqets (shiqquts)): Three distinct Hebrew words are rendered in the English Bible by "abomination," or "abominable thing," referring (except in Genesis 43:32; 46:34) to things or practices abhorrent to Jehovah, and opposed to the ritual or moral requirements of His religion. It would be well if these words could be distinguished in translation, as they denote different degrees of abhorrence or loathsomeness.
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1996 by Biblesoft)
The Hebrew word used at Leviticus 18:22 is: OT:8441
tow` ebah (to-ay-baw'); or to` ebah (to-ay-baw'); feminine active participle of OT:8581; properly, something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol:
KJV - abominable (custom, thing), abomination.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
This is the same word used in Leviticus 18:26, 27, 29, and 30:
Leviticus 18:26-30
26 'But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you 27 (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled); 28 so that the land may not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you. 29 'For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their people. 30 'Thus you are to keep My charge, that you do not practice any of the abominable customs which have been practiced before you, so as not to defile yourselves with them; I am the LORD your God.' " NAS
The word translated “abomination” in Proverbs 6:16 is the same Hebrew word.
So Biblical truth is that all sexual sin is an abomination to God and that includes adultery. You failed to post the punishment for homosexual behavior found in Leviticus 20:13, which is the same punishment for adultery found in verse 10- death. So God did not single out gay men for special sanctions. Are these punishments valid for our time and culture? Not at all, we live under a different set of laws, however they are guides for Christian behavior. Galatians 3:24-25
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. NAS
You brought up the Sabbath, which again applies only to the Hebrews. Colossians 2:16-17
16 Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. NAS justforfun000 wrote:If Jesus DIDN'T mention it, then by your implication, it's unchanged. Not to mention he was once quoted as saying he did not come to do away with the old law and in fact every bit of it still applied.
You are putting words in my mouth. I posted that Jesus did not specifically address a lot of the provisions in the law. See there is no way to debate homosexuality involving religion without challenging the religion. The whole thrust of someone believing the Bible is that their source material is truth. So if they cannot PROVE it's true, and more importantly even refute someone else's position with something rational and evidential, then why should they be listened to? Why should government, society, indeed especially individuals like young teens identifying as gay listen? It's not enough to say "I believe". I can believe I have a pixie that I talk to that no one else can see. I can tell people that according to this pixie the world is truly flat. Does this mean my belief is just as valid as someone else's even when they can demonstrate through photographs, mathematics and other disciplines that the world is actually round?
This is about the most ludicrous statement I think I have read in a long time. Religion by definition is faith in a higher power or set of spiritual values. If you don’t want to accept those values that is your right. Under U.S. law you have the right to live your life as an open and proud gay man. On the other hand the U.S. Constitution forbids Congress to mandate a state religion or to prohibit the free exercise of religion. You should be thankful you don’t live in an Islamic nation governed by Islamic Law, like Afghanistan where homosexuality is still punishable by death. Christians are not the only group that view homosexuality as sin.
If your agenda on this board is to debate the sinfulness of homosexuality I will tell you right off we will not come to consensus of opinions. You cannot show by any rational or linguist means that the Bible is wrong concerning what we believe to be sexual immorality.
Your flat world analogy is idiotic. Even the Bible states the earth is a circle. I don’t know of any non-primitive culture that actually believed the world was flat in spite of what you may believe. All you have to do is stand on the seashore and look at the horizon to tell the world is not flat because you can see an arc.
Now lets go back to Leviticus and the morality code. Jesus not only supported the morality code He made it more restrictive: 3 And some Pharisees came to Him, testing Him, and saying, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause at all?" 4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said,' For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh'? 6 "Consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." 7 They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?" 8 He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9 "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." 10 The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry." 11 But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it." NAS
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