nightfall wrote:1) ALLAH IS GOD'S NAME, IT DOES NOT MEAN GOD AS IN GOD OF THE BIBLE: Allah was the name of the chief god among the numerous idols in the Kaaba in Mecca, which represented the deities of travelers passing through in the caravans. Allah was the god of the local Quraish, Muhammad's tribe, before Islam was invented. Muhammad smashed the idols but kept the black stone which is still kissed today by Muslims. He kept, too, the name Allah for the god of Islam (its sign was the crescent moon) in order to appeal to his own tribe. - AND THAT IS THE MUSLIM RECORD OF HISTORY, NOT NON MUSLIM ONLY. The arabs of that area and time did not consider it necessary to make the stone or rocks they worshipped into the likeness of animals or men as the Greeks did. Rather they believe the spirit was inside the rock. The award word for stone indicates this. Allah is not the name of the god in the bible.
Rubbish ! Allah was never an Idol. The moon god that was worshipped at the Kaabah was called "Hubul" which was also known by the name "Sin" and "Nanna" through out the Arabian Peninsula whom was the SON of Al-Uzza which was considered by the pagans as one of the daughters of Allah.
Also, Arabic speaking Jews and Christians named themselves with A
llah's name such as abdu
llah, saifu
llah etc.
This pathetic fiction story was already argued on this forum
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 2820#32820 Have fun reading. Also I would like for you to point out one single verse in the Quran that Allah is an Idol when the Quran condemns idolotry.
nightfall wrote:Hello? What does there being two different types of believers have to do with BEING AN ELEPHANT, BANANA, PENNY, PILE OF DUNG, OR MUSLIM OR ANYTHING PERIOD? NOTHING... YOU DON'T MAKE SENSE AND HAVE NO BUSINESS PREACHING ABOUT A RELIGION YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WELL ENOUGH TO TEACH ON. HOW ARROGANT.
And let me guess, you know about Islam than he does huh ? This funny how people as your self whom probably never read the Quran before make statements based on what he/she reads from biased sources of course Christian sources whihc will automatically bias anything that opposes Christianity. Do you think you it is SMART to go to a sailor to learn about how to fly a plane ?
nightfall wrote:3) IT IS NOT THE JOB OF MUSLIMS TO SHOW (ALL) PEOPLE WHAT YOU BELIEVE THROUGH PERSUASION USING WORDS AS YOU IMPLY. RATHER THIS IS WHAT ALLAH SAID:
O Yea tell us about it. So I guess we should trust a Christian to explain another religion not their own whom have no understanding of, mereless that cant even read.
10:100-101 if thy Lord had willed, all who were on earth would have believed together".) Would you (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers?
12:103 "And yough you try much. most men will not believe."
Those are verses you quoted mereless you understand them in your own sick prejudice conception. We do not read the Quran like you do your bible. The Prophet was merely preaching to them to turn them(the Idololaters) away from Idol worship. Even though they clearly rejected him he still was persistant trying to turn them away. Also, do you have any idea when that verse was revealed ? The Surah was revealed in the early part of Islam when he was being persicuted by his people in the first 12-13 years before he and other muslims migrated to Medina.
So that verse was not revealed when the muslim were dominant but at the time when they were oppressed long before the first war called the battle of Badr when the Muslims had already migrated to Medina where they had strengthened and was able to fight.
nightfall wrote:Kill Disbelievers and be Harsh to Them:
8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Lets see what you whipped up here. Hmm. I would like to know when since the Arabic word "FITNAH" meant "disbelief".
The Arabic word "Fitnah" means
oppression,
persecution,
tribulation
008.039
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression(Fitnah), and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution(Fitnah) is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution(Fitnah) and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
It seems you switched up for another translation that is unknown. The first quote in the begining you made came from Yusuf Ali translation but then you went to another translation to whipp up
Fitnah to mean "disbelief" which is completely paposterous. Why did you change translations? Cause ti wasnt good enough for your sick prejudice ?
That verse shows the muslims were being persecuted and they were command to fight until there was no more persecution upon them from their enemies.
Then you went on in your ravish misrepresentation of quoting from the Quran.
9:3-5 Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve, excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (to Him). Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush, using every stratagem of war."
Did you see the red ? EXCEPT THOSE IDOLATERS whom they already had a treaty with and who DID NOT aid their ENEMIES AGAINST THEM.
Want further confirmation that your eyes and black heart deluded you from seeing ?
009.004
YUSUFALI: (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
PICKTHAL: Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him).
SHAKIR: Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
9:14 "Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame"
With the exception of those who did not fight against them or aided their enemies.
9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
What happens when you dont pay your taxes ? What did your man-god say about the rendering of taxes imposed on a people ? If you dont like it get out. If you intent to live in such a country then you have to abid by its laws.
4) FOR THOSE OF YOU MUSLIMS WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE QURAN BUT RATHER THE HADITHS OR WHO ALSO BELIEVE IN THE HADITHS:
YOU ARE PERMITTED TO RAPE WOMEN YOU TAKE CAPTIVE IN WAR BY MUHAMMED'S WORD:
Abu Sirma said to Abu Said al Khudri: "O Abu Said, did you hear Allah's messenger mentioning about al-azl (coitus interrupts)?" He said, "Yes", and added: "We went out with Allah's messenger on the expedition to the Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing azl" (withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: "We are doing an act whereas Allah's messenger is amongst us; why not ask him?" So we asked Allah's messenger and he said: "It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born" Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3571 p.732-733
This is refering at the time when Muta was permitted which was a practice in pre-Islam. Those men married those women as concubines in the practice of Muta which is temporary marriage whereas Allah condemned such practice.
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: thus hath Allah ordained (prohibitions) against you: except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property, desiring chastity, not lust. Seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, ye agree mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-Knowing All-Wise. 4:24
Whereas to marry women agains their will was also condemned.
O ye who believe! ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good. 4:19
Verses 4:19-24 were revealed at the same time demolishing such pre-islamic acts.
To add to this, marry a disbelieving captured woman ro slave was demolished at the later end.
Do not marry unbelieving women until they believe: a slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman. Even though she allure you. Nor marry (your girls) to Unbelievers until they believe: a slave man who believes is better than an Unbeliever even though he allure you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of Bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: that they may receive admonition. 2:221
So no your are wrong. That pre-islamic practice was all together condemned in the Quran.
5) MUSLIM'S ARE NOT TO MAKE AN ALLIANCE WITH CHRISTIANS OR JEWS! SO HOW DARE YOU CLAIM ALLAH IS THE GOD OF THE BIBLE AND JEWS!:
5:80-81 “You see many of them allying themselves with the unbelieving infidels. Vile indeed are their souls. Allah’s wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide. If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what had been revealed to him."
WHo is "THEM" who allied them selves with the unbelievers ? Cant you read an understand this is refering to a historical event in which some of the muslims back then allied themselves with those who persecuted and fouoght against the muslims.
Also, the word seems to be a bit prejudiced by the translator also. The Arabic is "yatawallawna" which is the verb-tense of the noun "Waliy" that means "Patron, Gaurdian, Protector"
Why should muslims take non-muslims as their "Patrons, Gaurdians, Protectors". I think it is ridiculous if you ask me. Would you take a non Christian as your "Waliy" ? A perfect example guilty of this and in complete violation of the principle of this verse is the Saudi Government whom took the USA as their WALIY to fight their wars. Pathetic !
6) MUSLIMS WHO ARE PEACEFUL WITH CHRISTIANS AND JEWS ARE HYPOCRITES AND WILL GO TO HELL!
9:67-68 “The Hypocrites enjoin what is forbidden, and forbid what Islam commands. They withhold their hands (from spending in Allah’s Cause [Jihad]). They have forgotten Allah so He has forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are oblivious, rebellious and perverse. Allah has promised the Hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers the Fire of Hell for their abode: Therein shall they dwell. It will suffice them. On them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment, a lasting torment.”
I would like to knwo where you got "Hypocrites " in that verse to refer to muslims ? The Hypocrites spoken of in that verse if you cared to read its context are the muslim enemies that pretended to be muslims amongst them to infiltrate their ranks to plot against them.
STOP BEING A HYPOCRITE BY CALLING YOURSELF A MUSLIM!
YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ISLAM AND AN INFIDEL TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN THE QURAN AND HADITHS! STOP DECIEVING AND TWISTING MUHAMMED'S CLEAR VERSES!
LEAVE YOUR HOUSE AND DO YOUR DUTY!
Why dont you stop decieving and stop twisting the Verses of the Quran ?
Didnt Casper teach you how to read ?