Hello some_knowledge!
Nice copy and paste posts!
www.answering-christianity.com/john1_1.htm wrote:This claim has problems because by this verse it is assumed that Jesus was the "word" and since the word was God and became flesh, Jesus is God. Hmm...omega...Did you know that John reproduced in his gospel the same saying that was uttered not by John but by A Philo of Alexandria, years before Jesus or John were born. It is therefore completely unlikely that Philo was even remotely referring to Jesus so I wonder who could Philo be referring too.
There is also another reason for not capitalizing the "G" in John 1:1, considering the Greek of the above verse which disproves the assertion that Jesus is referred to as God in the verse. The first time the word God is used, the Greek is "TON THEOS", which means "a god".
Yet the stronger Greek word "HO THEOS" which means "Divine God" was used for satan in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The NIV Bible Author wrote "god" for Satan instead of "God", which the word itself literally means The God. The second time the word God is used,"....and the word was God," the word for God is TONTHEOS, which also means "a god".
The West evolved a system of capital and small letters non-existent in Greek. The God, HOTHEOS is translated as God with a capital G, whereas Tontheos, which means A or ANY God is translated with a small g, god. For instance Moses is called a god in Exodus 6:7 "And the LORD said to Moses, "See, I make you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet. 2 You shall speak all that I command you; and Aaron your brother shall tell Pharaoh to let the people of Israel go out of his land."
Jesus being God by putting capital G for both whereas it doesn't belong in the case of the "word".
The translators described Jesus being God by putting capital G for both whereas it doesn't belong in the case of the "word".
omega Posted: ""En arche en ho logos, kai ho logos en pros ton theon, kai theos en ho logos" which means exactly:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the "Word was God"
Again these translators like to play with words. So can we trust the current English Translations? Given that facts above about verse John 1:1, how can we expect from an ordinary English speaking Christian who wants to spread his religion with all his heart honestly and faithfully to understand this lie of capitalizing the small "g" in John 1:1 and other verses, and not capitalizing the the MANY "g"s in the same exact words used for Jesus throughout the Old and New Testaments?
You’ve got to be kidding me? Ton Theis is a god? That is just as bad as the watchtowers Jehovah’s Witness Translation which I must is misleading. All of the Greek Scholars in the World have not translated this verse as such, Where does answering christianity get there sources from? Jesus is recognized as 'God in the book of John chapter 20 verse 28 and Titus 2:13 and when re read the verse John 1:1-18 this is clearly expressing the identity between Jesus Christ and God, try studying these verses before copying and pasting from sites where their information is unreliable.
www.answering-christianity.com/john1_1.htm wrote:omega I have a question that you might can answer. In the "original" Greek manuscripts (Did the disciple John speak Greek?), "The Word" is only described as being "ton theos"(divine/a god) and not as being "ho theos" (The Divine/The God). A more correct translation would be "A more faithful and correct translation of this verse would thus read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine"
omega, what is the difference between saying "the word was God," and between saying "the word was a god (divine)"? Are they not the same? Far from it! For instance the bible says:
Yes John did indeed speak Greek and I’m not sure what your trying to say within those quotes, first of all the word Theos is taken as referring to God in essence and in substance and not ho theos, which is the Father in person. Therefore is does not equal theios neither should it be represented as God. The Expression
sarx engeneto should further clarify this, the word sarx is a way of expressesing the state which the "Divine Word" had entered by a definite act. Theos is expressesing the essence in which was His (
en arche) or meaning that He was indeed God . So the logos had existed from eternity(
was with God the Father) and that He(
Logos) was Himself God.
some_knowledge wrote: Corinthians 4:4
the author of John tells us that God is greater than Jesus. If the author of this Gospel did indeed wish us to understand that Jesus and God are "one and the same," then can someone be greater than himself? Similarly,
With that said, the author of John tells us that God is greater than Jesus. If the author of this Gospel did indeed wish us to understand that Jesus and God are "one and the same," then can someone be greater than himself? Similarly,
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28
omega, Can someone "go" to himself? Can someone be "greater" than himself?
"These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:" John 17:1.
If John meant to tell us that "Jesus and God are one and the same" then shall we understand from this verse that God is saying to Himself "Self, glorify me so that I may glorify myself"?
again "While I (Jesus) was with them in the world, I kept them in thy (God's) name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12.
If the author of John wanted us to believe that Jesus and God are one person then are we to understand from this verse that God is saying to Himself "Self, while I was in the world I kept them in your name, self. Those who I gave to myself I have kept ..."? Is this what the author intended us to understand from his writings?
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." John 17:24.
omega, did the author intend us to interpret this as "Self, I will that they also whom I have given myself be with me where I am; that they my behold my glory which I have given myself, for I loved myself before the foundation of the world"?
All of these proves that Jesus isn't God Almighty which means Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was a Man born in the womb of his mother. Remember that.
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
The Qur'an confirms Jesus as such a man, messenger, messiah and a prophet from Allaah (God).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: 'Be.' And he was."
First of all your letting all these false teachers who quote from unreliable sources lead you astray, that is the very reason why you have departed from you Christian Faith, don't believe me? I have seen it all! Secondly I'm not quite sure how you classified yourself as Christian before when you have no concept whatsoever of the Doctrine of the Triune God, lets see what the Scriptures say which you should have kept busy with in times past:
1 John 4:3 - And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. So let me ask you my friend, Have you
confessed Him before or
denied Him? One of the ver essentials of Salvation is confession my friend. Without such the Spirit of Truth may have never resided in your heart to begin with. Your understanding of scriptures clearly point to the fact that you lack spiritual understanding. I will demonstrate with the above verses quoted by you that supposedly deny the Deity of Christ.
some_knowledge wrote:If John meant to tell us that "Jesus and God are one and the same" then shall we understand from this verse that God is saying to Himself "Self, glorify me so that I may glorify myself"?
again "While I (Jesus) was with them in the world, I kept them in thy (God's) name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12.
If the author of John wanted us to believe that Jesus and God are one person then are we to understand from this verse that God is saying to Himself "Self, while I was in the world I kept them in your name, self. Those who I gave to myself I have kept ..."? Is this what the author intended us to understand from his writings?
They are not the same person otherwise that would conform to the
Oneness Heresy that pentecostals use or what they call "Modalism" which is better understood that God had manifested Himself in dfifferent modes which would be contradictory, I will show you some examples:
John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. According to the Modalism doctrine God took on the role of the son when incarnate on Earth, this is contrary to Scripture since the above passage proves that the Son existed before the World began. Each member of the Triune God have specific functions as I had stated in my earlier post if you had read it carefully. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is done when one constantly rejects the message of the Truth, it has been presented to you and you have departed from the Truth and you as time progressess will have your heart to become hardened because of continually rejecting the Truth which is presented to you. I am here so that you may realize this and not fall into condemnation. Please my friend take this into consideration, because the more you reject the Truth the more your heart will become hardened, and eventually your heart will become a heart of stone where there is no return.
Mark 3:29 - But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Love you my friend and hope to hear from you soon.
GOD BLESS!