Sin means purposely break the rule of god. So if you say ‘unknowingly sin’, it means you ‘don’t know that you purposely break the law of god’. That is ridiculous. How could somebody doing something purposely without knowing? But it is understood if you still want to insist on your stand on this because maybe your definition of sin is different from mine.
Sin means breaking Gods law, no excuses, and according to you Prophets are stupid and don't know when they sin.
the point is Perfect means no FLAWS, making mistake is something that disqualifies a person from being Perfect.
Also they SINNED please understand this NO ONE ASKS FORGIVENESS FROM GOD FOR DOING NOTHING !!!
Do you get it, why would a person ask forgiveness for nothing, if the prophets sked forgiveness from God it means they did something that was bad in Gods sights aka sin.
Jesus never asked forgiveness because he truly is Perfect and never needed forgiveness.
They asked for forgiveness because they made mistakes not because they sin. Adam asked for forgiveness because He forgot. Noah asked for forgiveness because He did something that He did not was wrong. Being forgetful and not knowing are not sin. Well, maybe in Christianity they are sin. I don’t know.
If it was a mistake that is not a sin they would not need to ask forgiveness because they did not break Gods law, when a person asks forgiveness FROM GOD it means they broke his law.
A perfect Person has no flaws he knows sin from not sin and would never commit sin by accident, none of your Prophets are perfect they all sinned the only one that never sinned is Jesus he is truly Perfect.
That is not what Luke says. Luke said all Jesus’ disciple must hate their family
The expression "to hate" often meant to prefer less. Jesus used strong language to make clear that nothing should take precedence or first place in our lives over God. That verse tells us to put God before anything Father, Mother, Wife etc.
Ali was not a prophet. The Al-Ahzab war was recorded in the surah Al-Ahzab. It was when the Unbelievers attacked the Muslims in Medina. Read the following verses 33:9-11
The Scripture speak for itself stop making ridicolous excuses for a specific verse in your books.
"Ali Ibn Abi Talib encountered a man called 'Umru and told him, `I indeed invite you to Islam.' 'Umru said, `I do not need that.' 'Ali said, Then I call you to fight.' (This was the same policy Muhammad used with those who rejected his invitation.) 'Umru answered him, `What for my nephew? By God, I do not like to kill you.' `Ali said, `But, by God, I love to kill you"' (ibn Hisham, "The Biography of the Prophet", part 3, p. 113; see also Al Road Al Anf part 3, p. 263).
In here it says Ali encountered a man, (so he just met him) called Umru ( not Amru) and told him I indeed invite you to Islam ( inviting Umru to islam) Umru said, I do not need that ( good Choice ) whats the result of Umru saying I do not need that ? Ali said then I call you to fight. (Ali called Umru to fight after he rejected islam, so how can Ali call Umru to fight if they were already in a battle :roll: ) Umru answered what for my nephew? by God , I do not like to kill you (Umru is showing here he is defensive and has no intention of killing) now lets see peaceful Alis response But, by God (using God) I LOVE TO KILL YOU ( Agressive a man who LOVES to kill)
And somehow you are trying to convince me that Umru is the agressor, is this Ali a so called man of God a man who loves to kill ? no man of God in the old and new testament would NEVER LOVE something like killing.
For this is not a man of God, no man of God love to kill.
kyas I suggest you test the people in the quran test to see if they are truly Gods people, you need to question what you believe in.
O ye who believe! Remember the Grace of Allah, (bestowed) on you, when there came down on you hosts (to overwhelm you): But We sent against them a hurricane and forces that ye saw not: but Allah sees (clearly) all that ye do.
Behold! they came on you from above you and from below you, and behold, the eyes became dim and the hearts gaped up to the throats, and ye imagined various (vain) thoughts about Allah!
In that situation were the Believers tried: they were shaken as by a tremendous shaking.
This has nothing to do with what I gave you.
May I know whose rule is that? God’s rule or man’s rule? It cannot be man’s rule. Men do not administer the heavens and earth. Neither do they administer the hell. So, the answer is God made the rule. God has decided that hell is the place for those kinds of people. Here is another question for the christians
oes God made Hell to show His love or His hatred towards his stubborn creations? If it is to show love, can you imagine? I love you unconditionally, that was why I created Hell for my creation as a place to put those people who separate themselves from me.
hell was prepared for the devil and his fallen angels. It was never meant for man to go there. Man is going there by choosing to follow Satan and his evil ways by rejecting the free grace Jesus is offering to mankind. God loves all man and wants them to be saved but he gave men a choice to worship him or reject him, Hell is total seperation from God, its the men who reject God that choose the seperation, they condem themselves.
And God does not hate like your evil god that hates all of us, the real God has pity on us and our fallen nature and made a way for us sinful people to have our sins removed and be seen righteous in the eyes of God.
God is Love stop blaspheming by saying God hates us.
You have read it out of context.
Let me explain… u said:
“According to you if the Person is addicted and can’t control himself, he is Perfect, so if you are force to take drugs you are saying that makes you perfect?”
And I replied (rephrased hopefully you get what I mean):
“If I were forced to take drugs, it is not a sin because I was forced to do so. It is not a voluntary action. But that does not make me a prophet the perfect human because I sin. Prophets do not sin. Do you not?”
The Point is you took the drugs which would make you NOT PERFECT, Jesus was tested and provokes by satan to sin, but HE NEVER SINNED, Jesus never made any mistakes He is truly perfect, your prophets are not Perfect they asked forgiveness for their sins, asking forgiveness from God is a sign that they have done something that is against Gods law, which make them NOT PERFECT
I hope you understand now.
But the bible says dying is a result of sin. The Bible teaches that death is the direct outcome of sin. Planning his own murder is for sure a bigger sin.
First dead to sin means Spiritual death not literal :roll:
Jesus never died his flesh died but not his Spirit his Spirit is Eternal God look at this Scripture
John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Jesus raised up his own dead body, How can a mere dead mortal raise up his dead body if He is not God ? the truth is Jesus is the Word of God from the beginning that is God and became flesh and dwelt amongst us died for our sins and then raised his body from the dead and now is Glorified forevermore, Jesus is eternal God
Jesus flesh died but not his Spirit and Soul the Spirit of GOD
Let me tell you this. It is so obvious that you have so little knowledge on Islam. The only scripture in Islam is Quran. The narration you quoted is not a scripture. They are stories told from one person to another before they compiled them into books. Therefore, some of the stories may be questioned in term of their authenticity. Only God knows the exact situation. And Ali is not a Prophet. He was a close companion of Muhammad. Here is how the story goes according to my reference:
In 5 A.H the Jews allied themselves with the unbelievers of Mecca led by Abu Sufyan, the Bedouin tribes of Ghatafan, Solaim, Bani Qais and Bani Asad as well as the Jews of Khaibar to destroy Islam and its Prophet in a final escapade.
This battle is historical in its nature and an example of the excellent defensive capabilities of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.). It is known also as the Battle of Khandaq (ditch or trench) because of the innovative strategy of digging a trench fifteen feet wide and as deep along the undefended north-west edge of the city. The enemy soon approached and were struck dumb with astonishment. This mode of defense was unknown to the Arabs, and they were at a loss to understand how to overcome this obstacle so they laid siege.
Madinah was besieged by 10,000 idolaters from diverse clans. Banu Quraidah severed their peace agreement with the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) and joined the ranks of the unbelievers. Thus, the balance of forces changed in favor of the enemy. The Muslims were deeply frightened. The Qur’an describes them saying:
"When they came upon you from above you and from below you, and when the eyes turned dull and the hearts rose up to the throats, and you began to think diverse thoughts concerning Allah." Holy Qur’an (33:10)
More than a fortnight elapsed, when a party of the besiegers’ horsemen found the narrowest and weakest guarded part of the ditch. Amru bin Abd Wid, Nawfal bin Abdullah and Dzarar bin Al-Khattab, led by Ikrimah bin Abu Jahl, spurring their horses leaped forward towards the Muslims and challenged them to single combat.
Amru bin Abd Wid, on horseback, strolled conceitedly on the other side of the trench, taunting the Muslims and taking pride in his heroic deeds. He then shouted: "Is there anyone among you who will challenge me in a single combat?"
Imam Ali (a.s.) asked the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) to permit him to accept the challenge, but the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) said: "Sit down. It is Amru."
Abd Wid repeated his challenge debasing the Muslims and mocking them, saying: "Where is your Paradise to which you allege to go if you were killed? So, why don’t you send me a man accepting my challenge?"
As none of the Muslims showed willingness to accept his challenge, Imam Ali (a.s.) repeated his request: "I am for him, O Messenger of Allah!"
The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) again declined saying: "Sit down, it is Amru!"
Imam Ali (a.s.) showed little respect for Amru and others like him, and said, "What if he is Amru!"
At this stage the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) agreed to let him go. He gave Ali (a.s.) his own sword, Dhulfiqar, dressed him with his own armor, and put his own turban on his head, and then he said, "O Lord! This is my brother and cousin. So, my Lord, do not let me alone. You are the best of inheritors!"
Ali went to the battle-field and talked to Amru, saying: "You had made a promise to God that no man of the Quraish would give you two courses without you choosing one of them." "Indeed," replied Amru, "What is that?" . "I summon you to Allah, His Messenger and to Islam." Imam Ali said. "I have no need of that." He answered. "Then I summon you to fight." said Imam Ali (a.s.) "Go back," he told him, "There was great friendship between me and your father, and I do not like to kill you."
"But by Allah, I like to kill you."
Amru became angry and darted at Imam Ali (a.s.), who faced him boldly, as usual, and killed him. The voice of Imam Ali (a.s.) was heard heralding "Allahu Akbar" (Allah is the Greatest!) which indicated victory.
When Imam Ali (a.s.) returned from the battlefield, the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) received him and said: "The fighting of Ali bin Abi Talib with Amru bin Abd Wid is greater in measure than the actions of my people until the Day of Resurrection."
After killing of Amru bin Abd Wid, Imam Ali (a.s.) had the gap in the trench which Amru had breached blocked, and took his post at that point with the intention of confronting anyone who might try to cross the trench. Otherwise, the army of the disbeliever’s, with their thousands, would have invaded Madinah and beaten the Muslims. Thus, Imam Ali (a.s.) heroism in the Battle of Ahzab was the most decisive factor in victory for the Muslims, and in defeating the army of the disbeliever’s. The death of Amru struck terror in the hearts of the enemy and they began to abandon the fight group by group. Soon, Abu Sufyan, as well, had to retreat.
That is the only answer I have. The will be no other answers. If you are not satisfied, I just can’t do anything. I do not expect you to believe the above narration because I have my sources and you have yours. We have different faith and that is well understood.
First its just more contradictions of your own book what I had quoted to you shows that it was not a war and still look at what Ali says
I LOVE TO KILL
No man of God would ever LOVE to kill, killing is not something anyone would LOVE to do.
especially saying by GOD
thats blaspheming in Gods name
I suggest you test the people of your book kyas question your beliefs you need to knwo something is wrong with these people that claim to be people of God.
All the Prophets in the Old and New testament proved their Prophethood without a doubt except for the people of your book.
also you have not quoted on the other verses I gave you