Jesus speaks about Muhammad

Mujahideen · Postby **Mujahideen** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:25 am

<BLINK>Jesus PBUH speaks about Muhammad (PBUH)</BLINK><BLINK> </BLINK>

I will send him unto you

John 16:7

لكني أفول لكم الحق ، إنه خير لكم أن أنطلق ، لأنه إن لم أنطلق لا يأتيكم المعزي ، ولكن إن ذهبت أرسله إليكم

Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if, I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

I will send Holy Spirit

John 15: 26

ومتى جاء المعزي الذي سأرسله أنا إليكم من الأب روح الحق الذي من عند الأب ينبثق فهو يشهد لي

"But if I go, I will send Holy Spirit"? "When the Paraclete comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness of me." John 15:26

He will give you another Paraclete / comforter

John 14: 16

أطلب من الأب فيعطيكم معزيا آخر ليمكث معكم إلى الأبد

"And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Paraclete (comforter), that he may abide with you (for ever) into the age (to come)."

Paraclete, the Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name

John 14: 26

وأما المعزي الروح القدس الذي سيرسله الأب باسمي فهو يعلمكم كل شيء ويذكره بكل ما قلته لكم

"But the Paraclete, the Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."

He will guide you into all the truth

John.16: 13

وأما متى جاء ذاك روح الحق فهو يرشدكم إلى جميع الحق لأنه لا يتكلم من نفسه بل كل ما يسمع يتكلم به ويخبركم بأمور آتية

But when he, the Spirit of Truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative, but whatever he hears, he will speak. John.16: 13

"He shall glorify me

John 16:14

ذاك يمجدني

“ He shall glorify me."

The Quraan glorifies the birth of Jesus. The Quraan also confirms, Jesus was a Messiah translated Christ; a Messenger of God; the Spirit from God; the Word of God and the Righteous Prophet.

For Arabic Bible:

http://www.gospelcom.net/ibs/bibles/ara ... nload.html

Postby **webmaster** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:36 am

Yes Jesus does speak about Muhammad.

There are 3 chief demonic spirits, The Dragon, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet. The Dragon opposes the Father, and the AntiChrist opposes Jesus Christ and the False Prophet opposes the Holy Spirit.

Allah{Who is the second chief demonic spirit who is sent from the Dragon which opposes the Father} is the One who opposes Jesus Christ.

Example Allah claims that Jesus is nothing more than a prophet sent from him, belittling the the true essence of His very being. Muhammad is claimed to be the greatest of the prophets even including Jesus.

Third chief demonic spirit is the False Prophet, this demonic spirit saw muhammad and entered into Him, now, the false prophet opposes the Holy Spirit and is attempting to take its place, example:an attempt to show that the Holy Spirit is Muhammad because the spirit of the false prophet had entered muhammad.

Truely I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Thank you for 100% proving to us that Muhammad is the False Prophet by your own words!

Believer · Postby **Believer** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 01:36 am

http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=3810

The myth about Jesus promising Muhammed has been refuted.
Jesus sent the Spirit of the LORD as His counselor.

Isaiah 40:13
Who has understood the Spirit of the LORD ,
or instructed him as his counselor?

Scorpion · Postby **Scorpion** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:17 pm

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will come after a matter of days, Mohammed came after some 600 years ... You truely must be dreaming if you think Mohammed is the Holy Spirit spoken of. This is ridiculous. Jesus also said that the Holy Spirit would Glorify him if i remember well, Mohammed did nothing but corrupt the Bible and get mixed up with Jesus's deity and think of Jesus as Just another prophet.

Mujahideen · Postby **Mujahideen** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 02:47 am

Jesus also said that the Holy Spirit would Glorify him if i remember well, Mohammed did nothing but corrupt the Bible and get mixed up with Jesus's deity and think of Jesus as Just another prophet.

Jesus is glorified in the Quran.

ILJ/Y · Postby **ILJ/Y** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 04:20 am

Peace to all, and may God bless you each.

The Koran teaches a different gospel/and a different Jesus than the Gospels/Epistles etc...and as the Gosples warned us it would happen, so we are not shocked by this vain attempt to portray Muhammad as the Comforter, which has been refuted in your various threads on the same subject.
Perfection was Jesus.Muhammad cannot at all make the claim to being sinless.

ILJ/Y

Mujahideen · Postby **Mujahideen** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 08:16 pm

Perfection was Jesus

Rofl. Do you hear yourselves people? read the bible.

Omega · Postby **Omega** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 08:18 pm

The Bible is inspirational and i have read it my friend.

Hebrews 4:15 - For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

God Bless!

littleshepard · Postby **littleshepard** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:00 pm

Mujahideen wrote:
Jesus also said that the Holy Spirit would Glorify him if i remember well, Mohammed did nothing but corrupt the Bible and get mixed up with Jesus's deity and think of Jesus as Just another prophet.

Jesus is glorified in the Quran.

Then why don't you guys follow his teachings? The majority of what you teach in islam is opposite of what Jesus' message was about. From adoption to women to how you treat other people who don't believe in your beliefs. Think about it. If you glorify this "prophet" as you claim you do, why do you have such a hard time convincing others of it?

ILJ/Y · Postby **ILJ/Y** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 02:22 am

Mujahideen said,

Rofl. Do you hear yourselves people? read the bible.

Well, even the Koran says HE is sinless, which no other man can claim, as God stated, "This is by Beloved Son in WHO I AM well pleased", so are we.

I am glad you see it as funny, but I personally do not, since many are outside of HIS truth. :cry:

In HIM
ILJ/Y

whosurdaddy · Postby **whosurdaddy** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:24 pm

Scorpion wrote:Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will come after a matter of days, Mohammed came after some 600 years ... You truely must be dreaming if you think Mohammed is the Holy Spirit spoken of. This is ridiculous. Jesus also said that the Holy Spirit would Glorify him if i remember well, Mohammed did nothing but corrupt the Bible and get mixed up with Jesus's deity and think of Jesus as Just another prophet.

===============================
Hard to believe that Islam teaches that Mohammed was the Holy Spirit.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit would be "in them" In what way could Mohammed be in the disciples since he wasn't born for 600 years? Unless, of course, He's God?

Ghada · Postby **Ghada** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:01 am

Alslam Alikom...
I am Ghada, from Saudi Arabia. I saw this article when I was searching in google. It really hearts my heat, sorry I may have lots of english spelling mistakes coz english is not my language so please forgive me..

I just want to say somethings...

In Islam, all muslems can't be real muslems if they not belive in other prophets comes before! this was written on Quran.
Prophet (Mohammed)... is not the GOD!!! as said in the last reply!!!
Allah (the God)... after Adam our big father sent many and many prophets to this world.... (Ibaraheem, Yosif, Yonis,..... Isa or what you say it Jesus lots and lots... we just know 25 or 26 of them that they were written in Quran.

Prophet Jesus, is not as you think that he is the son of God, God comes from light,,, thing we cant even knows how... and we should not think about how is he looks like or anything like this....
Jesus is one of his prophets sent to people as other prophets and as Muhammed later too..
The job of the prophet is to tell people that there is only (ONE GOD IN THIS WHOLE WORLD).... that was the first thing that all the people should know....
Even in Jewish... there was a prophet Allah sent to them from there people and he is (Mosa) , and if we were in that time. we have to fllow him coz he came from God.... bet after him came Jesus,,, and If we were in that time too we all have to follow him too... but after that Allah sent his last prophet... Muhammed.... and we all have to follow him coz he is not wanting to do only what God want as to do... The main thing in Jesus & Muhammed & other prhphet jobs... (I don't knpw the sutible word in english to say it in) but I will say in job... is that we all have to know that there is only one God, he is alone no having a wife no having a child... he is not humanbeing... but Muhammed & Jesus and other prophets are all human like us, but God had chosen them for some purpose to do.

If you read Quran, the real Quran you will fine that it is meracle!!!
thing that we never can write like it.... and the Quran & Islam lessons came having all the stories about all the phrofets comes before... so we all love Jesus we love all prophets... Allah want us to beleive in them all.

Islam have lots of lessons that is sutible for this world...
I will tell you somthing... why Allah sent different prophets from time to time....??? coz the time change... the people change.... before thousands of year is not like today......

Allah sent Muhammed with his last Quran.... the bible the book that is before now is been changed, we know that lots of people before changed it in some way... coz if there is the real Bilble that God sent.. It would have the main thing on it like in Quran... but in Quran that comes later should have things more Allah want us to do....

This life is for God. Allah sent us for a reason.... all of that is explained in Quran & in what Muhammed said before...
At the end of this world... there will not be just the heaven and the Hell...
who did what God says he will be the winner at last....
even in muslems... the is the bad people and the good people no one is the same in what they beleive in God.
But beleive me that Islam is what we all should be in....
if you read reall sites about islam, discover islam, you will find it

you dont have to change directly.... the first thing is you first beleive in Islam, goes inside your heart....

Ghada · Postby **Ghada** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:02 am

Alslam Alikom...
I am Ghada, from Saudi Arabia. I saw this article when I was searching in google. It really hearts my heat, sorry I may have lots of english spelling mistakes coz english is not my language so please forgive me..

I just want to say somethings...

In Islam, all muslems can't be real muslems if they not belive in other prophets comes before! this was written on Quran.
Prophet (Mohammed)... is not the GOD!!! as said in the last reply!!!
Allah (the God)... after Adam our big father sent many and many prophets to this world.... (Ibaraheem, Yosif, Yonis,..... Isa or what you say it Jesus lots and lots... we just know 25 or 26 of them that they were written in Quran.

Prophet Jesus, is not as you think that he is the son of God, God comes from light,,, thing we cant even knows how... and we should not think about how is he looks like or anything like this....
Jesus is one of his prophets sent to people as other prophets and as Muhammed later too..
The job of the prophet is to tell people that there is only (ONE GOD IN THIS WHOLE WORLD).... that was the first thing that all the people should know....
Even in Jewish... there was a prophet Allah sent to them from there people and he is (Mosa) , and if we were in that time. we have to fllow him coz he came from God.... bet after him came Jesus,,, and If we were in that time too we all have to follow him too... but after that Allah sent his last prophet... Muhammed.... and we all have to follow him coz he is not wanting to do only what God want as to do... The main thing in Jesus & Muhammed & other prhphet jobs... (I don't knpw the sutible word in english to say it in) but I will say in job... is that we all have to know that there is only one God, he is alone no having a wife no having a child... he is not humanbeing... but Muhammed & Jesus and other prophets are all human like us, but God had chosen them for some purpose to do.

If you read Quran, the real Quran you will fine that it is meracle!!!
thing that we never can write like it.... and the Quran & Islam lessons came having all the stories about all the phrofets comes before... so we all love Jesus we love all prophets... Allah want us to beleive in them all.

Islam have lots of lessons that is sutible for this world...
I will tell you somthing... why Allah sent different prophets from time to time....??? coz the time change... the people change.... before thousands of year is not like today......

Allah sent Muhammed with his last Quran.... the bible the book that is before now is been changed, we know that lots of people before changed it in some way... coz if there is the real Bilble that God sent.. It would have the main thing on it like in Quran... but in Quran that comes later should have things more Allah want us to do....

This life is for God. Allah sent us for a reason.... all of that is explained in Quran & in what Muhammed said before...
At the end of this world... there will not be just the heaven and the Hell...
who did what God says he will be the winner at last....
even in muslems... the is the bad people and the good people no one is the same in what they beleive in God.
But beleive me that Islam is what we all should be in....
if you read reall sites about islam, discover islam, you will find it

you dont have to change directly.... the first thing is you first beleive in Islam, goes inside your heart....

Loki · Postby **Loki** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 02:58 pm

John 16:7

"But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you."

the Comforter, is clearly identified by the Lord Jesus as the Holy Spirit in John 14:26
John 14:26 "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

no need to explain the rest of the prophecy with it being baseless.

Muhammed denies Jesus' good news, therefore Muhammed is an anti-christ... who's teaching shouldn't be respected neither followed.

Christ has overcome the world, he has done more then all humanity combined for all humanity combined... Even if you had a million of Prophet's like Moses and founding fathers like Abraham -and i mention them with all and utmost respect- it wouldn't come near to Jesus' sacrifice by a long shot.

Ghada · Postby **Ghada** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:38 am

I don't agree with what you said.
In Islam , In Quran... the last prophet is Mohammed, Allah sent him to the people after Isa > Jesus as you said.
In Islam we have to follow 2 things (Quran & Sira)... Quran in the book comes after the Real Bible (and I said real Bible coz the Bible now has been changed to suite the christans life) in Arabic we say (moharraf) it means that somthing inside the book had been changed. This was written in Quran about other Holly books. But Quran never been changed not coz muslims didn't change it but coz Allah saveed it. (Inna laho la hafethon) This in Quran in one of the Sora inside it > It means that nobody nobody in this world can change anything in the Holly Quran.

So It is what muslims follows and the second thing is the Sira which it means > All what prophet Muhammed said (Ahadeeth) or (Hadeeth) ... mains its talk, what he do what he teach us ... etc.... everything.

Read the Quran, even if you beleive in what you are in... Just read it.
I know some christans who are still in what they are, but they never have a sleep only if they have Quran near them.

If you read it you will know that it is a mericle. Allah said in Quran that the Quran is the big mericle for muslims.

I am just saying that for you, later if this world finish.. no body will help other body.... when we are all in one place togather with all the people, animals, everything in this world and we are waiting to face our destiny to face out Allah... nobody will help us! Only what the good work we done in this world, no mother to help, no fahter to help..... somthing really so frightened!
In Islam... who follow Quran & Muhammed... not even all the muslims... coz a person is differ from other person... some have big beleive some are not, and even some muslims are just in name are muslims but there work are not!
not only to follow Quran and propher Muhammed... there is lots & lots of things.... to beleive in the before prophets & holly books that came before from Allah, to beleive in the end of this world & what will happen later, to beleive in angels and ghosts... heaven & hell.... destiny > I mean what Allah we do for us in future... to have a big beleive in Allah (God).

I will try to find some of good sites about Islam in english.
You can just read to have a knowledge, you will not lose anything.

At last I will say, I hope that Allah make our beleive more stronger in our hearts, in what it is the truth. and to open the eyes for the ones who can't see the truth, they are not blamed, this world at this time is so diffecult...

With all my love,
Ghada :roll:

Ghada · Postby **Ghada** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:56 am

Loki · Postby **Loki** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 05:07 pm

I don't agree with what you said.

I don't expect you too

In Islam , In Quran... the last prophet is Mohammed, Allah sent him to the people after Isa > Jesus as you said.

No need to explain islam to me.

In Islam we have to follow 2 things (Quran & Sira)... Quran in the book comes after the Real Bible (and I said real Bible coz the Bible now has been changed to suite the christans life) in Arabic we say (moharraf) it means that somthing inside the book had been changed.

1. Proof a 'real' bible excist
2. Proof that such a 'real' bible is corrupted

This was written in Quran about other Holly books.

quote the surah, wich says that. It i'll be a first.

But Quran never been changed not coz muslims didn't change it but coz Allah saveed it. (Inna laho la hafethon) This in Quran in one of the Sora inside it > It means that nobody nobody in this world can change anything in the Holly Quran.

Proof that the quran hasn't been changed by producing examples of the first written quran's dating from the 7th century.

So It is what muslims follows and the second thing is the Sira which it means > All what prophet Muhammed said (Ahadeeth) or (Hadeeth) ... mains its talk, what he do what he teach us ... etc.... everything.

So the quran's not a complete book, can islam excist if all hadiths were to dissapear from the face of the earth tomorrow? or is it in need of hadiths in order to survive?

Read the Quran, even if you beleive in what you are in... Just read it. I know some christans who are still in what they are, but they never have a sleep only if they have Quran near them.

euhm, most of the christians in this discussion forum are well informed about Islam, i can savely say of all the christians in here including myself who read the quran. Are simply not impressed.

If you read it you will know that it is a mericle. Allah said in Quran that the Quran is the big mericle for muslims.

It's a book, books aren't miracles, a book's nothing more but a tree with ink on.

I am just saying that for you, later if this world finish.. no body will help other body.... when we are all in one place togather with all the people, animals, everything in this world and we are waiting to face our destiny to face out Allah... nobody will help us! Only what the good work we done in this world, no mother to help, no fahter to help..... somthing really so frightened!

I am not frigtened, there is your difference between you and me... You will never ever have the amount of good deeds to balance out your bad ones, they are like a filthy rag. If your God is really a just God then he must sentence you to hell even if you had one sin in your name!

I on the other hand am saved trough God's grace, alltough i am a sinner, unlike you, i will have someone who'll help me carry my burden.

In Islam... who follow Quran & Muhammed... not even all the muslims... coz a person is differ from other person... some have big beleive some are not, and even some muslims are just in name are muslims but there work are not!

you mean like bad deeds? if muhammed kills a slave girl just for laughing at him...

is it a good deed by muhammed or a bad one?
if a muslim repeats this action today because someone makes fun at his prophet... is the muslim then doing a good deed or a bad one?

cause if you call the muslims deed bad, then so is muhammed's, and who are you to judge all saint and holy muhammed?

terror has a religion and muhammed named it islam.

not only to follow Quran and propher Muhammed... there is lots & lots of things.... to beleive in the before prophets & holly books that came before from Allah, to beleive in the end of this world & what will happen later, to beleive in angels and ghosts... heaven & hell.... destiny > I mean what Allah we do for us in future... to have a big beleive in Allah (God).

yes, i have a big believe in God too, just not in yours.

I will try to find some of good sites about Islam in english.
You can just read to have a knowledge, you will not lose anything.

except time

At last I will say, I hope that Allah make our beleive more stronger in our hearts, in what it is the truth. and to open the eyes for the ones who can't see the truth, they are not blamed, this world at this time is so diffecult...

Let's discuss what the truth is before you think to posess it.

With all my love,
Ghada

I don't doubt that your a loving person, that alone
makes me think that you grew up in the wrong religion

Ghada · Postby **Ghada** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:44 am

Bism Allah alrahmaan alraheem,
Alslam alikom,

Allah said in his Holly book "the Quran"
((Enna nahnoo nazzalna altheker wa enna laho lhafethon))
Sura: Al Hijr, in Aaya number: 9
The meaning: That Allah sent down this Quran from him, and it will be saved because Allah will watch over it alwayes.
lhafethon > " l " in arabic if we put it near a verb give us the meaning that it will continue, "it does not give us the meaning for a past" so here we can know that the holly Quran will be saved alwayes.

Quote: "This was written in Quran about other Holly books."
I will go back again, I really didn't know how I said that. Sorry again.
Dear Loki, this will not change what I said it before about ( the tahreef) > I mean that the Bible is not as what it was before.
600 years between Bible & Quran > in this 600 years Allah didn't sent anybody for the people, 600 years is too long! Don't tell that you are sure that nothing been changed in the Bible!! The mind can't accept that or I can say my mind can't accept that.
In Quran , Allah saved it ....... (what I told you in the beining)..

See I am a normal muslim, I beleive in what I am in as you beleive in what you are in. There are lots of muslims who are in soo deep in Islamic studies, knows more and more.... Lots of Islamic offices are all around the world, If somthing you want to know even for just a knowledge ask a real muslim there do not depend only on people here on forums or to read from christian people who worte about Islam. I hope you understand what I wanted to say.

about what you want me to proof, you can see here some articles:
http://www.quransearch.com/contra.htm
50,000 error in the Bible, too much !!! look here ....
http://www.jamaat.net/bible/AwakeArticle(1957).html

This is just a few examples.
-----------------------

Quote: "euhm, most of the christians in this discussion forum are well informed about Islam, i can savely say of all the christians in here including myself who read the quran. Are simply not impressed. "

Really!! oh I am really feel soo sorry about that. Inside my heart with all what Allah give me, I know I believe that this Quran is mericle for Islam and for all the people. when I hold the book , the book that have the talk of Allah I feel somthing big in my heart, and with my strong beleive in it I cry when I read it somtimes. Really it makes me soo comfortble inside, everything is explained inside, everything that the person need.
The family relationship, the marrige, the kindness, the work (work) , lots and lots of things, even about what we have to do for Allah... things and things that I can't tell it, It is bigger than I can say somthing about it.
When I hear the Quran in casette (You know we have some Sura's been recorded in casettes by some well known & well Quran reader) when we drive our car we listen to Quran, somtimes before I go to sleep, It makes my soul soo in peace, I am saying that thing & I know that Allah is listen to waht I am saying now).

I know It is diffecult to understad this or to feel this. The Holly Quran is not just a mericle in its words but also in its language. The translation gives you only the meaning! In Arabic I fell the meaning is more stronger goes directly to your heart!

Dear Loki, I said befor (In Islam we have to follow Quran & muhammed) then I explained somthing else, I ment by what I saied, that the muslim person cant be muslim until he beleive in Quran and of what prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) comes with. He is a messnger from Allah and what he says is what Allah wants. Then I said "not even all muslims" Sorry I have not a good english language to explain what I want to say. But I will tell you what I ment.
Some muslims are muslims but the beleive inside their heart vary from person to other person, you have a good person you have a bad person > lots and lots of kinds...... so the more believe in Allah & what Muhammed tell us to do & what Islam wants us to do the more you became a strong muslim.
That what I ment Mr. Loki.

I never & never ment somthing to hurt our prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him). He is bigger than anybody can say somthing about him!
He is the most person Allah love. We alwayes say in Arabic (Habib Allah).

I will tell you somthing, what happened in USA... it is bad for people who are not realted to what Bosh are doing, If what had been done was by a muslim so he might not really understand Islam well or for other reason.
But not from this we said that Islam is for war!
People are vary from one to another depends on the what is his level of strong in his beleive (Sorry for my weak english > but I hope you understad what I ment)

------------------------------

What you will lose if you read a good Islamic sites?? ha?
TIME???!!!

After this world ends, lots of people will hope that the time can be backwards again, to have time, to figure out the truth!

May Allah bless us!

The truth in what I beleive in, that Allah is one & prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) is the last messnger that Allah sent to the poeple.
Allah gave him the holly Quran, which it contains all what people need help them in their life, It is like the guide for us in this world, who follow it will be in safe, who didn't follow it he be lost!
-----------------------

and about what you said about love,
I don't have anything to hate you or to hate christains. Yes I do not accept your religion, but at least I beleive in it and in the Bible coz we cant be real muslims antil we beleive in the holly books before.
Bible was sutible before Quran, but why you think Allah send another Holly book to the people? not to say thay the real Bible is false but the time changed and Allah bring Quran with the full things he want us to follow and to do, It is complete! comes with the last messnger that Allah send him to this world.

Nothing let me to hate you, you are a human as me but in different religions. You believe in what you belive , and I believe in what I beleive.

We can talk & discuss in friendly way. I never said bad words about christains. We call you in Arabic (ahl alketaab) It means that you are all & jews people too are people from Holly books that comes before.

Just a question to you Loki,
Are you really comfortable in what you are in? from different corners??
your life, your family relationship, from everything?????
Do the Bible coverd all what a person need in this word, the rules, the very little little things????

-------------------------------------------------------

peace be upon him.

ok, at last, I would put some links:

THE AMAZING QUR'AN - Dr. Gary Miller
Calling the Qur'an amazing is not something done only by Muslims, who have an appreciation for the book and who are pleased with it; it has been labeled amazing by non-Muslims as well. In fact, even people who hate Islam very much have still called it amazing.
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Book ... htm#source

THE TRUTH ABOUT JESUS
http://sultan.org/articles/Jesus.html

The Bible Led Me to Islam
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/xfse ... icleid=198

The Bible's Last Prophet
http://islamicweb.com/index.asp?folder=bible

The call to non muslims
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/dawah/index.htm

Jammat.net
http://www.jamaat.net/index.htm

The True Religion
http://islamworld.net/true.html

Discover Islam - The Fastest Growing Religion in the World !
Learn about The Real Islam !
Correct your information about Islam,
The Misunderstood Religion ..................... (lots of links, a great site!!)
http://sultan.org/

Muhammad in the Bible
What all Christians and Jews MUST know about the Bible
http://muhammad.net/biblelp/index.htm

http://muhammad.net

Islam answers back
http://www3.sympatico.ca/shabir.ally/toppage1.htm

and another great islamic site
http://islamonline.net

----------------------------------------------------------
TRY TO HAVE A LOOK FROM TIME TO TIME TO THESE LINKS
----------------------------------------------------------
Time is not a really reason for not reading! We can manage our time, even an hour in a week!!!

From my deep heart I hope you figure out the truth sometime.
I am writing this sentice and I heared just now the voice of the prayer in the mosque. I have to go for the prayer.

Good luck.

Ghada :roll:

Loki · Postby **Loki** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 07:57 pm

Allah said in his Holly book "the Quran"
((Enna nahnoo nazzalna altheker wa enna laho lhafethon))
Sura: Al Hijr, in Aaya number: 9
The meaning: That Allah sent down this Quran from him, and it will be saved because Allah will watch over it alwayes.
lhafethon > " l " in arabic if we put it near a verb give us the meaning that it will continue, "it does not give us the meaning for a past" so here we can know that the holly Quran will be saved alwayes.

Then how is Rashad Khalifa's version still in excistence (in which he omitted verses 128 & 129 of chapter 9) spread around too a growing group of muslims as divine guidance

Is Rashad Khalifa above Allah's word? guess someone beated Allah.

Quote: "This was written in Quran about other Holly books."
I will go back again, I really didn't know how I said that. Sorry again.
Dear Loki, this will not change what I said it before about ( the tahreef) > I mean that the Bible is not as what it was before.

Please Ghada, proof me this, i won't take your word on this, just because you or muhammed said so.

600 years between Bible & Quran > in this 600 years Allah didn't sent anybody for the people, 600 years is too long! Don't tell that you are sure that nothing been changed in the Bible!! The mind can't accept that or I can say my mind can't accept that.

You forget the persian prophet manes/mani in the 3th century who was the last of all prophets and succeeded a line of prophets after Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, Abraham, Moses...

does that sound familiar? muhammed only copied mani... or if muhammed is just an arabian version of the prophet mani, then it could even be that muhammed never excisted at all.

In Quran , Allah saved it ....... (what I told you in the beining)..

You can repeat it a 100 or even a 1000 of times, i will need you to proof that. If you are certain that the quran hasn't changed, then you must have some proof... or did you blindly accept that without question or research?

Lots of Islamic offices are all around the world, If somthing you want to know even for just a knowledge ask a real muslim there do not depend only on people here on forums or to read from christian people who worte about Islam. I hope you understand what I wanted to say.

I study christianity too as much as i can, the more i know about christianity, even more i know then on what my faith is builded... how precious my faith really is.

If you don't know or are unable to defend your Quran, then it must be that you don't know what the quran is all about, you accepted it, because your culture demanded it for you. Not because you questioned it with reason.

about what you want me to proof, you can see here some articles:
http://www.quransearch.com/contra.htm
50,000 error in the Bible, too much !!! look here ....
http://www.jamaat.net/bible/AwakeArticle(1957).html

I'm debating you, not those men or women who wrote those articles, if you want to respect the means of debating, then you debate with me of what you know. And don't post me sites of things wich you didn't know yourself without them.

If your willing to use that information, at least read it yourself then paste essential parts out of it, or put it in your own wordings. thx.

I will tell you somthing, what happened in USA... it is bad for people who are not realted to what Bosh are doing, If what had been done was by a muslim so he might not really understand Islam well or for other reason.

Those muslims that did that, say the same thing about you, that you don't understand the quran and must participate in the jihad wich is being fought in the US the WTC bombing of 1993,
the Kenia and Tanzania bombing of 1994,
the USS cole bombing of 1999,
The WTC, Pentagon and Philladelphia jet act of war in 2001,
the Bali discotheque in 2002,
The Moscow theatre in 2003,
in the station of Madrid in 2004,
The jihad armies in Palestine, Kashmir and The Philliphines,
the Beslan school hostage of little children in 2004,
the car bombs and beheadings at this very moment in Iraq

The US and the EU are doing their best and repeating and saying "Islam is a religion of peace" but when will Islam acctually confirm this? when they are carrying around bombs, guns and quran verses.

I'm not even talking about your filthy regimes, your very own beloved saudi still has a religious police and public beheadings. The Aayatollah of Iran had a group of children used in order to destroy a minefield, The most repressive regime in the world to live in at the moment is Turkmenistan, Pakistan has a death sentence against blasphemy of the prophet in it's law, of all 30 muslim countries, are only 3 democratic.

But not from this we said that Islam is for war!
People are vary from one to another depends on the what is his level of strong in his beleive (Sorry for my weak english > but I hope you understad what I ment)

Islam is making in one century more atrocities then the catholic inquistion and the crusades put together. If we grant rogue muslim states like Iran or Pakistan A-bombs then we are only putting an timebomb on mass murder.

What you will lose if you read a good Islamic sites?? ha?
TIME???!!!

After this world ends, lots of people will hope that the time can be backwards again, to have time, to figure out the truth!

You have no more truth to offer me, then the truth wich i allready possess

The truth in what I beleive in, that Allah is one & prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) is the last messnger that Allah sent to the poeple. Allah gave him the holly Quran, which it contains all what people need help them in their life, It is like the guide for us in this world, who follow it will be in safe, who didn't follow it he be lost!

Or Islam is the great deception talked about in the bible, the great lie, the prophet mentioned in Revelations chapter 13, a anti christ who seeked to deceive the very elect (if that was possible), and is Muhammed's glorification of Allah that of the one who wants to be like the most high -but isn't-, a gospel warned about by Paul that even angels don't have the authority to teach another gospel then the one given.

but why you think Allah send another Holly book to the people? not to say thay the real Bible is false but the time changed and Allah bring Quran with the full things he want us to follow and to do, It is complete! comes with the last messnger that Allah send him to this world.

God doesn't change, and if God wants to persecute christians, parsis, jews, buddhists and hindu's because God didn't want their scripture to be preserved then that makes God a sadist.

Basicly, whoever Allah is in the Quran, it ain't God.

And the quran's not complete, you don't even know how many times to pray without a hadith mentioning it. You don't know islam without the hadiths because the hadiths make up more then half of Islam. As a matter of fact, at least the christians use the bible as a complete book, and are in no need of apocrypha for things not mentioned in it.

We can talk & discuss in friendly way. I never said bad words about christains. We call you in Arabic (ahl alketaab) It means that you are all & jews people too are people from Holly books that comes before.

yes but i think that 'friendly' attitude towards us is a bit hypocritical.... since:
1. christians are persecuted in the quran
2. christians and jews are not to be trusted
3. muslims look down upon christians since according to a muslim they have more superior knowledge then a christian, not equal knowledge
4. muslims threat christians and jews as second rank civilians, and that is under islamic law, that we need to pay taxes to muslims in order not to be excluded from your community, we need to pay for your kindness, we don't receive it.

Just a question to you Loki,
Are you really comfortable in what you are in? from different corners?? your life, your family relationship, from everything?????
Do the Bible coverd all what a person need in this word, the rules, the very little little things????

Even better then just comfortable, the holy spirit makes me even a better person, the more i stay true to my faith, the more i am changed, since christ lives in me... you have no idea the power of wich such transformation feels like. It can turn the most ruthless criminals into muck puppy's and the hardest atheist into a die hard preacher. It's all loving, and excludes noone.

Sevryn45 · Postby **Sevryn45** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 09:17 pm

Is your Muhammed a Holy Ghost is he a God? Because that's what the HS is dummy, nice try come up with better arguments.

You people are so predictable. :roll:

Ghada · Postby **Ghada** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 02:58 pm

Mr. Sevryn45
I will not accept again to talk about our prophet in that way.
As you want from us to talk about Jesus with good words & with respect, So you also have to respect our prophet. Is that clear ???

You don't know what you just said right know.
What are you to talk about him???
If you don't believe in him so at least respect other religions.
-----------------------------------

Mr. Loki...

Who is Rashad Khalifa ???
I have the Quran in front of me, and worte the Ayya after I pronounce it in english, then I translated with my self in english,, who bring Rashad Khalifa here????!!!!!

Quote: "Is Rashad Khalifa above Allah's word? guess someone beated Allah"
WOW! , don't even say this words again!!
May Allah bless us & put us in the stright line.

Loki, ok...if you don't want to look at the links, can you proof that the Bible never been changed in the whole this hundred of years!!!
Why Allah sent another Holly book to the people?? What is your openion about that??

Please do not tell me about Buddha or Karisha or other who didn't came from Allah & don't have a Holly books...
What I beleive in is those 4:
Quran > comes with Muhammed (PBUH)
Bible > comes with Isa (Jesus) (PBUH)
Tawraat > Comes with Mosa (PBUH)
Zabour > Comes with Dawood (PBUH)
Those 4 who Allah told us about in The Holly Quran.

Other, are not come from Allah.

I will tell it more than million time even if you do not believe, that Allah saved the Quran in this world, DO you want me to say that Allah lied about that in his holly book !!!!!!!
Oh! May Allah bless us.

Dear Loki, as you studied christianity very well, I studied Islam very well, the more I learn the more I become a stronger muslim.
In Saudi Arabia my country, we learn about Islam in every year, in elementry then intermediat then high school even now in the university. So, even if the Shekh and Mullas are soo in deep in Islamic studies, but I least I know a lot in Islam, I understand the Quran WELL. & we read the Hadith too.
If you think that Jesus spirit is with you, I feel when I read the quran that Allah is with me , shows me the right way, let me have peace inside my heart. nothing is like the Quran, NOTHING!! that's why it is the miricle in Islam.
Not only I feel that Allah with me, even when I read the Hadith, the words & what our beloved prophet (Muhammed) said , & what he said is what Allah wants.... so I feel soo happy inside, soo in peace... thing that I think you will never feel like it.
Or you may feel but not like this at all.

And about the Jihad. Oh Loki... I hope sometime I can go for Jihad.. before Bosh come to Iraq, I asked my family for going to Iraq for Jihad, but you know I am girl and it is defficult to travel alone.
But If I have the chance to go for Jihad (to fight ONLY the ones who fight muslims NOT the womans & children & very old people) I will go with full of happiness!
As a muslims we MUST put the name of Allah UP and Muhammed (PBUH) UP and Islam UP!
Allah bless the Mujahedeen alla round the world.
I mean Mujahedeen NOT the terroist.

Even If I am in soo ove with my county "Saudi Arabia" but that is not mean that I agree totaly with our King, The first thing I really dis agree with them , that they are seeing Iraqies are killing every day by US armies and they are not donig somthing FOR JIHAD!!!
Not all the paople are the same Loki....

Loki, who is Paul? John? Why if sombody want to write somthing from Bible wirte some of those names???
Did they collect the Bible??!!! From that time of Jesus????

The Holly Quran is only having Allah words directly, nothing else.
Allah sent his angle Jebreel to our prophet Muhammed (PBUH) many times tell the Quran been completed.

Dear Loki, as I told you Jebreel comes to Muhammed (PBUH) many times, Jebreel tells Muhammed what Allah told him, All what Allah wants in more explanation is written in Hadith.
Hadith in no like the Quran, Loki
Quran is complete. Muhammed (PBUH) was the messnger from Allah, So we have to follow to what he said too, His Hadith is so imprtant to muslims.

Quote:"
1. christians are persecuted in the quran
2. christians and jews are not to be trusted
3. muslims look down upon christians since according to a muslim they have more superior knowledge then a christian, not equal knowledge
4. muslims threat christians and jews as second rank civilians, and that is under islamic law, that we need to pay taxes to muslims in order not to be excluded from your community, we need to pay for your kindness, we don't receive it. "

Oh, dear Loki, If you read the Sira (The life of Muhammed (PBUH), you will figure out that nobody in this world is as kidness as him)
It is a big story,,, you should read it Loki, as a knowledge.
BUT from a Islamic source. coz I know christains will may change alot to let Muhammed (PBUH) in not kind.

ok about the comfort...
Quote:"Even better then just comfortable"

Sounds good!!! but there is lots of things that can not let me believe that!
I will just focus in one, the other I prefere to be in othe articles:

From what I see with some my friend life (non muslims) & from what I see from (US films)... things let me more glad that I am a muslim...
I will tell you why....
The girls in your life, when they become 15 or 18.. They go out with different kinds of boyes every day, their life is soo confuzing!... parties, dances, kisses

, relationships, and thing we call it (Shothooth) means girl with girl, boy with boy.... things that I really feels that my hair of my body stands up

!!!!!!!!!

I don't know how their parents accept that, YOU DON'T feel jalous about your daughters. Is they have to go out when they just become an adult!!!
Hah , Loki???

That is just one thing, but If I talked about family realtionships, the children & parents, lots & lots of social things not only those but things other than the social... I think that In Islam culture with my own openion is very strong in these subjects that makes our life soo regulated.

----------------------------

Loki, did you read some of the links I put down before???...

Ok, now I will go to pray the sunset (Maghreb) pray... then I will study for my university exams... May Allah help us.

May Allah bless us.

Ghada :roll:

Loki · Postby **Loki** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 06:44 pm

Who is Rashad Khalifa ???
I have the Quran in front of me, and worte the Ayya after I pronounce it in english, then I translated with my self in english,, who bring Rashad Khalifa here????!!!!!

Rashad Khalifa is a man who published quran’s in wich verses are ommitted... these quran’s still excist and are being followed by groups of muslims.

So their are two quran’s, God didn’t preserve ONE quran. Some dude named Rashad Khaliffa beated Allah’s preservation of the book by altering it.

Loki, ok...if you don't want to look at the links, can you proof that the Bible never been changed in the whole this hundred of years!!!

Acctually yes, unlike the quran this is proveable... of all the oldest copies of the torah (700 BC) or gospel (50 AD) they are in perfect agreeance with the copy found in your everyday store... as are the photographs of these ancient documents made public, so anyone who doesn’t believe the bible isn’t an authentic book can double check it for themselve.

Why Allah sent another Holly book to the people?? What is your openion about that??

Simple, Allah didn’t send another Holy Book to the people... Muhammed was just as a heretic as countless of others, Muhammed has never seen God and probably never will but that is not for me too judge.

Please do not tell me about Buddha or Karisha or other who didn't came from Allah & don't have a Holly books...

Acctually according to islam, every nation was given a prophet, so this would include budda and krishna as muslims... alltough they aren’t and do have holy books.

What I beleive in is those 4:
Quran > comes with Muhammed (PBUH)
Bible > comes with Isa (Jesus) (PBUH)
Tawraat > Comes with Mosa (PBUH)
Zabour > Comes with Dawood (PBUH)
Those 4 who Allah told us about in The Holly Quran.

Other, are not come from Allah.

The Psalms, Torah and Gospel all contradict the quran... 3 books against 1.
Muhammed looses, Quran’s not from Allah.

I will tell it more than million time even if you do not believe, that Allah saved the Quran in this world, DO you want me to say that Allah lied about that in his holly book !!!!!!!
Oh! May Allah bless us.

God didn’t write that book, simple as that.

Dear Loki, as you studied christianity very well, I studied Islam very well, the more I learn the more I become a stronger muslim.
In Saudi Arabia my country, we learn about Islam in every year, in elementry then intermediat then high school even now in the university. So, even if the Shekh and Mullas are soo in deep in Islamic studies, but I least I know a lot in Islam, I understand the Quran WELL. & we read the Hadith too.

Yes it’s one thing to learn your religion, but it’s another to defend if... are you skilled in apologetics too? This you can only be, if you know other religions.

If you think that Jesus spirit is with you, I feel when I read the quran that Allah is with me , shows me the right way, let me have peace inside my heart. nothing is like the Quran, NOTHING!! that's why it is the miricle in Islam.

Their is nothing bigger or smaller then the glory of the holy spirit on this planet... Not a million books who claim the same will ever come near it. It’s power has stunned people all over the world, more then any Ghatas, Dhammapada, Quran, Avesta or Vedas ever did and will. The false pretext of inner peace wich you feel from the quran is this to nothing compared to the glory of the holy spirit sent out by God... The holy spirit can be felt troughout your body since the very second that it overcome’s you... It has conformted people that mourned, brought virtue too the passionate, freedom to the addicted, tears of joy too the gratefull and inner peace too the restless. It’s a personal guide wich speaks to you when your in need, who protects you when your trouble. Not even a million quran’s with a million muhammed’s will ever change this.

According to the quran God still hasn’t overcome the world, God’s still dwelling among men... wel in christiainity God dwells IN men, ever since Jesus’ sacrifice. When we read the bible we don’t see God talking to pharizees and sinners, God is directly talking to us.

Not only I feel that Allah with me, even when I read the Hadith, the words & what our beloved prophet (Muhammed) said , & what he said is what Allah wants.... so I feel soo happy inside, soo in peace... thing that I think you will never feel like it.
Or you may feel but not like this at all.

Certainly you DO NOT want me to quote hadiths and ask you if you believe all wich is said in them, cause it would make you a very dangerous and cruel person.

And about the Jihad. Oh Loki... I hope sometime I can go for Jihad.. before Bosh come to Iraq, I asked my family for going to Iraq for Jihad, but you know I am girl and it is defficult to travel alone. But If I have the chance to go for Jihad (to fight ONLY the ones who fight muslims NOT the womans & children & very old people) I will go with full of happiness!

You’d kill other humans because you think they are lesser humans then you are?
Using this wild justice, then i’m gonna ask you, who’s gonna kill you for killing them?

As a muslims we MUST put the name of Allah UP and Muhammed (PBUH) UP and Islam UP! Allah bless the Mujahedeen alla round the world. I mean Mujahedeen NOT the terroist.

You make me sick

Even If I am in soo ove with my county "Saudi Arabia" but that is not mean that I agree totaly with our King, The first thing I really dis agree with them , that they are seeing Iraqies are killing every day by US armies and they are not donig somthing FOR JIHAD!!!
Not all the paople are the same Loki....

Iraqi’s are killing their own people from their own country, even the iraqi’s don’t support that terrorism, they want peace! Yet you wanna go and fight there! who are you supporting? The iraqi’s who are being murdered by terrorists? Or the terrorists that kill those innocent iraqi’s.

Loki, who is Paul? John? Why if sombody want to write somthing from Bible wirte some of those names??? Did they collect the Bible??!!! From that time of Jesus????

Paul’s an apostle called upon by Jesus, confirmed by the apostle Peter, converted under persecution and stayed true to his faith untill his death sentence, did miracles in jesus’s name and his traveller and disciple Luke wrote one of the gospels in full agreeance with the three others.

John was to be said as Jesus’s closecist disciple, and eye witness of Jesus’s ministry... wrote the latest gospel, has two evangelic letters in the bible and had the apocalyps revealed to him by Jesus on the Island Patmos.

The bible wasn’t canoninzed in one day but over a long period of time, all in direct agreeance with the early christian tradition...

The Holly Quran is only having Allah words directly, nothing else.
Allah sent his angle Jebreel to our prophet Muhammed (PBUH) many times tell the Quran been completed.

The central figure in the Quran is Muhammed, not Allah... Everything revolves around muhammed, how great he really is, his conquests, his women, his this and that... all muhammed.

All the prophets and apostles in the bible who never met each other, are in perfect agreeance with 4000 years of revelation, that sounds more of the work of God then some man writing one book in his own lifetime... that has been done by countless of heretics and wannabe prophets.

Dear Loki, as I told you Jebreel comes to Muhammed (PBUH) many times, Jebreel tells Muhammed what Allah told him, All what Allah wants in more explanation is written in Hadith. Hadith in no like the Quran, Loki Quran is complete. Muhammed (PBUH) was the messnger from Allah, So we have to follow to what he said too, His Hadith is so imprtant to muslims.

The Hadith is a muslims refuge if something is not mentioned in the quran... It’s as clear as i say it, you need a second book! Or in this case with hadiths a whole range of books.

Oh, dear Loki, If you read the Sira (The life of Muhammed (PBUH), you will figure out that nobody in this world is as kidness as him) It is a big story,,, you should read it Loki, as a knowledge. BUT from a Islamic source. coz I know christains will may change alot to let Muhammed (PBUH) in not kind.

Islamic sources are biased and will do anything to hide Muhammed his cruel nature... then i rather read an independant source as i always do with subjects on history. Yet every independent source will judge him the same. As are the four caliphs no lesser cruel then Muhammed.

Sounds good!!! but there is lots of things that can not let me believe that!
I will just focus in one, the other I prefere to be in othe articles:

From what I see with some my friend life (non muslims) & from what I see from (US films)... things let me more glad that I am a muslim...
I will tell you why....
The girls in your life, when they become 15 or 18.. They go out with different kinds of boyes every day, their life is soo confuzing!... parties, dances, kisses , relationships, and thing we call it (Shothooth) means girl with girl, boy with boy.... things that I really feels that my hair of my body stands up !!!!!!!!!

Yeah US films are really reliable... you think that every child lives a live like those boys and girls in those teen series? The whole point of hollywood movies is to make us dream “if only we had such lives?” yet we don’t. Alltough we need to be free and NOT oppressed by a system! That only will make us live a life of virtue. If you don’t bring forth what is in you, then it will destroy you!

I don't know how their parents accept that, YOU DON'T feel jalous about your daughters. Is they have to go out when they just become an adult!!!
Hah , Loki???

That is just one thing, but If I talked about family realtionships, the children & parents, lots & lots of social things not only those but things other than the social... I think that In Islam culture with my own openion is very strong in these subjects that makes our life soo regulated.

I don’t like sinfull lives anymore then you do, wheter that be a homosexual lifestyle or fornication wich could lead to early child baring or abortion... but do consider that the same kind of people live in muslim countries as well, only they are not free as in the US where they have the freedom to sin or not (and wich i uphold, let the people be responsible for their own actions)... because of your dangerous governments these people need to hide... Islamic law didn’t bring homosexual into heterosexual muslims, islamic law brought them oppression.

Sevryn45 · Postby **Sevryn45** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:50 pm

So you also have to respect our prophet. Is that clear ???

Your prophet is a sexual deviant, a murdurer, theif, lier and a wacko who broke all ten commandments.

I give respect to people who deserve it, those who don't get a shaft from me. Is that clear?

Hannibal · Postby **Hannibal** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 02:59 am

ghada and sev your both being silly

ghada - its a christian forum so obviously thats where loyalties lie most people here think islam is a flase religion or whatever

sev - her prophet isnt christian so doesnt follow the ten commandents (did he kill his father???)

Ghada · Postby **Ghada** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 06:23 pm

Salam,

If you accept that or not, Quran is from Allah, the speach of Allah & It is ONE! only, It is the miricle that cames with our beloved prophet Muhammed peace & bless be upon him.

Loki, really you are the one who make me soo sick!!
I beleive that the sources that you choosed to read about Islam are false, Do not tell me that all the christain sites or books will talk about Islam in FAIR!!! I can never beleive that Mr. Loki.
As you also think that Muslims all say lies...

Sevryn45, The difference between you and me, that I do not just says things like that? all what I put is things that I learned from Quran, All the stories & even Isa (Jesus) story are witten in the Holly book Quran. All have a proof. Everything Everything is CLEAR, even more than clear.
But YOU, just want to throw false accusations..

I know that this is a christain forum, but you opened some sections that discuess things related to Islam. HOW do you open a sections related to Islam & then you told me it is a christain forum!!
The aim should be to have a good discuss with each other, with respect! even if our beleives are different but at least let us have a good conversations!!!
Do you want in those sections & Islamic articles to be answered by only the christains???
I read some articles here about Jesus & what you think about him, DID I reply on one of those & I said that Jesus is a lier & theif and and and .... etc?
NO!
YES I do not accept your religion. BUT at least I learned from Quran & Muhammed (PBUH) is to respect everybody.

Sura (Al-Kaafiroon)
no. 109
Ayya 1 to 6

1 Say (O Muhammad () to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!
2 "I worship not that which you worship,
3 "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4 "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
5 "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6 "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."
----------------
If you just want us to look & hear what somebody says worng about our prophet without have a defence for him, so I think It is not a FAIR.
as you fell jelous for your religion, I feel jelous too for my relagion

But I have to say that I met some people in this form who really want to give and take in soo friendly way, who even if they are not from my religion but there personality makes me respect them.

I don't want to say anything bad to anybody here, this is not my aim.

-----------------------------------------------------

OK,

Allah sent down the Holly Quran with a massenger who didn't even read & write > (Muhammed (PBUH))... this is one of the most proofs that the Quran which has the miricle in its word & language was come from Allah)

The first ever thing been told to Muhammed when Allah sent Jebreel is (Read!)

Sura (Al-Alaq)
no. 96
Ayya 1 to 5

1 Read! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists),
2 Has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).
3 Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous,
4 Who has taught (the writing) by the pen [the first person to write was Prophet Idrees (Enoch)],
5 Has taught man that which he knew not.

-------------------------------------

Ok, before I finish my this reply I will put some Ayyas from the Holly Quran:

"By the name of Allah"

Sura (Al-'Imran)
no. 3
Ayya 164

164 Indeed Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad ) from among themselves, reciting unto them His Verses (the Qur'an), and purifying them (from sins by their following him), and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur'an) and AlHikmah [the wisdom and the Sunnah of the Prophet (i.e. his legal ways, statements, acts of worship, etc.)], while before that they had been in manifest error.

Sura (Al-Hadid)
no. 57
Ayya 16 to 21

16 Has not the time come for the hearts of those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism) to be affected by Allah's Reminder (this Qur'an), and that which has been revealed of the truth, lest they become as those who received the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] before (i.e. Jews and Christians), and the term was prolonged for them and so their hearts were hardened? And many of them were Fasiqun (rebellious, disobedient to Allah).

17 Know that Allah gives life to the earth after its death! Indeed We have made clear the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) to you, if you but understand.

18 Verily, those who give Sadaqat (i.e. Zakat and alms, etc.), men and women, and lend to Allah a goodly loan, it shall be increased manifold (to their credit), and theirs shall be an honourable good reward (i.e. Paradise).

19 And those who believe in (the Oneness of) Allah and His Messengers, they are the Siddiqun (i.e. those followers of the Prophets who were first and foremost to believe in them), and the martyrs with their Lord, they shall have their reward and their light. But those who disbelieve (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism) and deny Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they shall be the dwellers of the blazing Fire.

20 Know that the life of this world is only play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children, as the likeness of vegetation after rain, thereof the growth is pleasing to the tiller; afterwards it dries up and you see it turning yellow; then it becomes straw. But in the Hereafter (there is) a severe torment (for the disbelievers, evil-doers), and (there is) Forgiveness from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure (for the believers, good-doers), whereas the life of this world is only a deceiving enjoyment.

21 Race one with another in hastening towards Forgiveness from your Lord (Allah), and towards Paradise, the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His Messengers. That is the Grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He pleases. And Allah is the Owner of Great Bounty.

Sura (Al-An'am)
no. 6
Ayya 92 to 94

92 And this (the Qur'an) is a blessed Book which We have sent down, confirming (the revelations) which came before it, so that you may warn the Mother of Towns (i.e. Makkah) and all those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in (the Qur'an), and they are constant in guarding their Salat (prayers).

93 And who can be more unjust than he who invents a lie against Allah, or says: "I have received inspiration," whereas he is not inspired in anything; and who says, "I will reveal the like of what Allah has revealed." And if you could but see when the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) are in the agonies of death, while the angels are stretching forth their hands (saying): "Deliver your souls! This day you shall be recompensed with the torment of degradation because of what you used to utter against Allah other than the truth. And you used to reject His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) with disrespect! "

94 And truly you have come unto Us alone (without wealth, companions or anything else) as We created you the first time. You have left behind you all that which We had bestowed on you. We see not with you your intercessors whom you claimed to be partners with Allah. Now all relations between you and them have been cut off, and all that you used to claim has vanished from you.
-------------------------------------------

(Sorry if I have a spelling mistakes, coz english is not my language, I am trying my best :roll:

)

Hannibal, I didn't mean you in my reply, I just talked in a general way. Do not be sad of me. ok?
btw, the father of Muhammed (PBUH) was dead when Muhammed was a little child. You didn't read the Sira (life story) of Muhammed (PBUH)?

Salam, peace to all :roll:

Ghada .....
_________________

Usefull links:
http://Quraan.com
http://Tafsir.com
http://islamonline.com

Loki · Postby **Loki** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 06:59 pm

Loki, really you are the one who make me soo sick!!

your health has nothing do to with me

I beleive that the sources that you choosed to read about Islam are false,

just saying so doesn't make it so

Do not tell me that all the christain sites or books will talk about Islam in FAIR!!!

Nope but i don't read christian sites only, i read atheists, ex-muslims, muslims, hindu's, parsis, etc and ESPECIALLY encyclopedia's and historians who are the most trusthworthy of all... every angle wich can have an opinion about islam i will read. If the hindu's or the parsis or the atheists think that muslims are nice people then i will have an argument lesser.

Yet of all those i just mentioned, they all hate islam because islam all persecuted them or still is doing so. I don't hate muslims since i don't generalize on a large body of people that's what racists do with "jews" or atheists with "christians"... i simply do not agree with the theology of Islam from my christian viewpoint as from a humanist viewpoint. And considering the latter many religions and secular philosophies join me in that opinion.

That the arabs would of been a big race is prophecied in the bible, yet as well that the arabs would be against the world and the world against the arabs.

Genesis 16:12 "And he (Ishmael) will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, And everyone's hand will be against him; And he will live to the east of all his brothers."

I can never beleive that Mr. Loki.
As you also think that Muslims all say lies...

I never said "all what muslims say are lies" but if you read a book written by muslims greatest critic Ahmed Deedat then you know that Muslims are not ashamed in resorting to lies and manipulative techniques.

How can i discuss with muslims sincere, if they think that ancient material is corrupted (without proof) and that the gospel of barnabas is truth (while it's a forgery) if muslims deminish their religion to false facts, then it's no wonder that i double check everything a muslim says...

and other then saying "that is false" you responded to nothing of wich i said to you.

Ghada · Postby **Ghada** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 08:15 pm

Mr. Loki, you really in soo sure with yourself!! in the same way that I know inside my heart that your beleives are wrong!! coz I belevie in Quran soo much, & what you said in not a sence for me at all.

What do you want me to reply for, ha??
you respond into many quote of my previous reply the saaaame thing - do you want to repeat & repeat... ok as you like:

(There is 2 Quran - that the bible are not corrupted (even If there is lots of links you can see that are talks about that).. ok nevermind let us continue.. - Allah didn't sent another Holly books - then that buddha & those kind of religions have holy books!! (but Loki,I ment that it was not from Allah) - ok let us continue of your responds - Quran’s not from Allah - etc, etc about hadith & islam,.........etc)

For all that responds from you ,I reply in 2 clear sentinces that:
(((If you accept that or not, Quran is from Allah, the speach of Allah & It is ONE! only, It is the miricle that cames with our beloved prophet Muhammed peace & bless be upon him. )))

I will add that, In islam we follow just those things (Quran & hadith)...
If do not beleive in Quran, So how do you want me to proof things to you?
I feel that you might read Quran with closing eyes ! I don't know even how it could be??!!

I wrote some Ayyas which are from Quran in my last reply, I hope that you read them well.

Go here please and have some read, If you read the Quran, so I think you have to read it again & again with open heart & mind & eyes
http://quraan.com

There is no holly book like the Quran, it even talked about the Rome war befor it happend before many years, It taked about the facts in this world, the water, the baby inside the woman more & more things that the scienctes discoved it later. What about the prohets stories? things & things Allah said in Quran...
Oh Man!..... I am really soo sorry that you didn't figure even that...

there lots of links too search & read...

Btw, about feeling sick... you are the one who said it first when I talked about jihad... so I can say soo, that your health is not even important to me at all !!

Ghada,

Loki · Postby **Loki** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 08:31 pm

I will add that, In islam we follow just those things (Quran & hadith)...If do not beleive in Quran, So how do you want me to proof things to you?I feel that you might read Quran with closing eyes ! I don't know even how it could be??!!

Simple i'm not impressed by the quran, i don't like your prophet and i don't believe Allah is God.

I wrote some Ayyas which are from Quran in my last reply, I hope that you read them well.

nothing wich i haven't read before

Go here please and have some read, If you read the Quran, so I think you have to read it again & again with open heart & mind & eyes
http://quraan.com

I allready read the quran once, why not have your turn at reading the bible? so that we may be even? you say to have many books in on your desk, but does it include a bible?

There is no holly book like the Quran, it even talked about the Rome war befor it happend before many years, It taked about the facts in this world, the water, the baby inside the woman more & more things that the scienctes discoved it later. What about the prohets stories? things & things Allah said in Quran...

I have read all that, and i adressed that in the topic.
"the scientific inaccuracies of the quran & hadith"
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=5277
and i have created other researched topics too:

1. Muhammed prophecied in the Bible?
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=5289
2. Contradictions in the quran
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=5291
3. The Quran is fabricated and corrupted
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=5339
4. Jihad, the doctrine of permanent war
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=5302
5. The prophet Mani heritage
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=5299
6. The Pagan heritage of Islam
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=5366
7. The 'Miracles' of Islam
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=5360

Take your pick, read them as you like, and tell me in those topics where i'm wrong and were you're right...

Btw, about feeling sick... you are the one who said it first when I talked about jihad... so I can say soo, that your health is not even important to me at all !!

hehe

that's okay, but wanting people death -such attitude- will make alot of people sick

not just me

Loki · Postby **Loki** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 08:32 pm

Ghada · Postby **Ghada** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 08:41 pm

Sura (Al-Hadid)
no. 57

16 Has not the time come for the hearts of those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism) to be affected by Allah's Reminder (this Qur'an), and that which has been revealed of the truth, lest they become as those who received the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] before (i.e. Jews and Christians), and the term was prolonged for them and so their hearts were hardened? And many of them were Fasiqun (rebellious, disobedient to Allah).

17 Know that Allah gives life to the earth after its death! Indeed We have made clear the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) to you, if you but understand.

-----------------------------

May Allah bless us & saves us....... Amen

Kai Hagbard · Postby **Kai Hagbard** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 09:16 am

Hi Ghada

Listen, I know you are a sincere person, truly I respect you, but you need to look at both sides, and Loki is challenging you to do that.

Christian-Muslim apologetic is an enourmous field, which demands a lot of study.

I have studied these matters sincerely and others related to them concerning Atheism and evolution for years now.

Concerning the Koran and science, this is a field of argument which even has been used by Christian and currently by Hindues.

The thing is, no religious book can make a claim predict modern science, why:

Most science which is predicted by the Bible and the Koran, we know from history was common knowledge before Muhammad was ever born.

Secondly, in most cases the scientific predictions are not consistent to modern science.

However, I cant figure out problem anyway since modern science is highly confused, and can prove nothing, it is merely theory and theory being combined by another to theory to present a fourth theory, which again helps to predict and solve the problem of another theory. Most of modern science is literally a joke, its nothing but a philosophy, a set of beliefs; so much for the ateits reason, honesty and unbelief.

I you really want Koranic science to match up to that, you are truly lowering its standard.

I have noticed also, several times that you claim that the Bible is changed

Now it is a common fact today that the Bible has not changed; history proves, and even the Koran proves it.

The atheistic or anti-Christian scholars who proposed such ideas belong to an era (time) and field which has been debunked and destroyed years ago.

I you would like to talk to me further on the issue of Bible corruption I would be really pleased.

One question, how on earth come you have access to this forum from Saudi Arabia? When I was in Arabia last year, all these kind of websites and forums were closed?

Kai

Kai Hagbard · Postby **Kai Hagbard** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 09:16 am

Hi Ghada

Listen, I know you are a sincere person, truly I respect you, but you need to look at both sides, and Loki is challenging you to do that.

Christian-Muslim apologetic is an enourmous field, which demands a lot of study.

I have studied these matters sincerely and others related to them concerning Atheism and evolution for years now.

Concerning the Koran and science, this is a field of argument which even has been used by Christian and currently by Hindues.

The thing is, no religious book can make a claim predict modern science, why:

Most science which is predicted by the Bible and the Koran, we know from history was common knowledge before Muhammad was ever born.

Secondly, in most cases the scientific predictions are not consistent to modern science.

However, I cant figure out problem anyway since modern science is highly confused, and can prove nothing, it is merely theory and theory being combined by another to theory to present a fourth theory, which again helps to predict and solve the problem of another theory. Most of modern science is literally a joke, its nothing but a philosophy, a set of beliefs; so much for the ateits reason, honesty and unbelief.

I you really want Koranic science to match up to that, you are truly lowering its standard.

I have noticed also, several times that you claim that the Bible is changed

Now it is a common fact today that the Bible has not changed; history proves, and even the Koran proves it.

The atheistic or anti-Christian scholars who proposed such ideas belong to an era (time) and field which has been debunked and destroyed years ago.

I you would like to talk to me further on the issue of Bible corruption I would be really pleased.

One question, how on earth come you have access to this forum from Saudi Arabia? When I was in Arabia last year, all these kind of websites and forums were closed?

Kai

Ghada · Postby **Ghada** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:48 pm

Salami Alikom,

Mr. Kai Hagbard,
I wrote that I am a Saudian but now I am in Bahrain.
I figure out this forum here when I am in Bahrain. I am studying in Bahrain I have also some family here.

About the science and Quran:
Just for example Mr. Kai Hagbard ok?.. Quran menthioned about how the baby is developed inside the woman body in soo in detail.. I don't know if you read that or not... But This before the scientests knew what is the development inside the pregnant woman in an accurate datail. SO...
I really do not know who some people say that the Quran is not from Allah (God) since Allah (God) the only ONE who knows the future. & Allah create us all. Then... after the scientests come in more deep & technology they figured that out. BUT before no body really know that in details???
Did they knows that before Muhammed (PBUH)???
Did even Muhammed (PBUH) knows that before Quran came down???
The Quran comes down with Muhammed which have the speach of Allah, BUT not Muhammed (PBUH) made the Quran.
Oh Kai! Do you know that Muhammed (PBUH) in the begining.. did not know how to read & write??? So, How he even wrote this!!
How he knows the future? How he knows all the stories of the prevouis phrophets,.. & & & .... etc??

Ok, I know that you not in beleive with that. Nevermind..... :roll:

Mr. Kai Hagbard, don't forget that I beleive in the Bible & tawraat, I beleive in Isa & Moses...... They are all menthioned in Quran. All muslims have to beleive in prevouis prophets, that what Allah wanted from us.

Peace to you,

Ghada :roll:

Loki · Postby **Loki** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 02:24 pm

I really do not know who some people say that the Quran is not from Allah (God) since Allah (God) the only ONE who knows the future. & Allah create us all. Then... after the scientests come in more deep & technology they figured that out. BUT before no body really know that in details??? Did they knows that before Muhammed (PBUH)???

Ghada, everyone knew this is allready... it was teached thousands of years before muhammed

such vague references are in the indian Upinandas (1400 BC), the book of job(1000 BC) and the talmud (100 AD)

since the holy Upinandas revealed it first, does that mean that Brahman is God ?

aristotles (350 BC), hippocrates (400 BC) and galen (150 BC) studied the subject into deeper and more extensive detail then your prophet...

prophet muhammed repeated something he heard, yet he even forgot to use the specific terms and said some unscientific vague things like "a thing that clings" with a clot and a this and a that. Basicilly science needs to fill in the blank spots. Quran is nothing without real science correcting it.

Kai Hagbard · Postby **Kai Hagbard** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 08:28 pm

Hi again Ghada

I think, I have been in Bahrain, at least ones, but I cant real recall it, I stayed in Dubai and places around for a while, that was a brilliant time, especially attending a Arabic wedding was a life experience.

Anyway, some of the issues brought up are really significant, but you must listen to Loki on this matter, embryology (the formation of a baby in a mother's womb) was rather advanced knowledge before Muhammad's time. The same exact development as referred to in the Koran was known to several scientists and philosophers who predated Muhammad with several centuries.

But Ghada the issue I wanted to bring up was that of the Bible and the Koran.

Most modern Muslims, and I guess you as well do not believe in the previous books (Tawrat, Zabur and the Injeel) in their present form, my question is:

Why does the Koran command and urge the Muslims and the Christian to believe the Injeel and all the previous Scriptures:

The Muslim is to believe all the previous Scriptures as they appeared in the time of Muhammad:

Be courteous when you argue with People of the Book except with those among them who do evil. Say: “ We believe in that which is revealed to us and which was revealed to you. Our God and your God is one”. (29:46)

The Christians are to believe and follow their Scriptures:

“Say, O people of the book! You are not founded on anything until you perform the Torah and the Gospel, and what was revealed to you from your Lord”. (Al-Ma’ida 5:68-71)

These verses do not only imply that the previous Scriptures such as the Injeel were once intact and pure and no corrupted.

The verses refer to the Christians and Muslims in the era of Muhammad which confirms that the Bible (the Kitab) was not corrupted in Muhammad's time.

Be blessed

Kai[/b]

H2O · Postby **H2O** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 04:15 pm

Kai wrote:The verses refer to the Christians and Muslims in the era of Muhammad which confirms that the Bible (the Kitab) was not corrupted in Muhammad's time.

Do you know what that verse was revealed for ? I think you aught to study a little bit more. You are also forgetting the last part "..and what was revealed to you from your Lord. It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphem. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith. " which is speaking about the Quran in the context of all the verses as a muhaymin (Supervisor) and a musadiq (Truth verifier) that you must believe in also to verify your scripture.

and We sent down to you (Muhammad) the Scripture in truth as a truth verifier (Musadiq) for whatever is at hand and a Supervisor (Muhaymin) over it. So judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee....5:48

If you claim that the Quran says the Torah or the Injeel is intact with you (which is merely a Christian deluded interpretation) then why would the Quran be a truth verifier and a Supervisor to it to tell us what is true and what is false in it ?

If we cannot interpret your book cause we are not Christians what make you think you can interpret ours if you are not Muslim?

Loki · Postby **Loki** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 06:00 pm

this post may be deleted webmaster, i responded to the wrong thread
thx in advanced

Apple Pie · Postby **Apple Pie** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 08:31 pm

Greetings H2O,

Let’s look at this…

Quote:
and We sent down to you (Muhammad) the Scripture in truth as a truth verifier (Musadiq) for whatever is at hand and a Supervisor (Muhaymin) over it. So judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee....5:48

If you claim that the Quran says the Torah or the Injeel is intact with you (which is merely a Christian deluded interpretation) then why would the Quran be a truth verifier and a Supervisor to it to tell us what is true and what is false in it ?

First of all, please show US where your so called “prophet” is mentioned by name ANYWHERE in this entire sura…?!

Fact is, mojo-jojo is not mentioned anywhere.

Not in this ayah.

Not in this Sura.

Not in this lifetime.

Lesson #1: Don’t attempt to word-smith your fantasies into what your Arabic clearly states.

Lesson #2: let’s review what word that is mentioned an astounding 15x in this sura….

الْكِتَبُ = “alkitabu”

“alkitabu” definition:

Lane references sura 2:2 in his definition:

ذَلِكَ الْكِتَبُ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِلْمُتَّقِينَ

Thalika alkitabu la rayba feehi hudan lilmuttaqeena

That The Book no doubt/suspicion in it, (it is) guidance to the fearing and obeying. (2:2)

“That is the book, or scripture”; as though combining in itself the excellences of all other books or scriptures; or meaning that is preeminently the book, or scripture. The Pentateuch or Mosaic Law; and the Gospel, or Book of the Gospels; the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians. Divine prescript, appointment, or ordinance; judgment, or sentence; fatal decree or predestination.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, p. 74; volume seven, p. 2590

That’s right, the authors of the Koran fall all over themselves in proclaiming the trustworthiness of the Biblical scriptures.

In fact, they reference it directly and up-front 15X in this Sura and 151X throughout the Koran itself.

The Koran does not "correct", "clarify", or "verify".

The Koran can only COPY.

Thanks for your understanding of the truth….

Sevryn45 · Postby **Sevryn45** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:12 pm

Sevryn45, The difference between you and me, that I do not just says things like that? all what I put is things that I learned from Quran, All the stories & even Isa (Jesus) story are witten in the Holly book Quran. All have a proof. Everything Everything is CLEAR, even more than clear.
But YOU, just want to throw false accusations..

What proof what accusations? :roll:

, why do you call me a lier and hold Muhammed in such high regard when he stole, lied, murdered and raped?

I am sorry but I don't get it, you wanna follow a wacko you go right ahead; but don't you dare come in here and spread your idiotic Muslim propaganda.

We get enough of your kind on these forums already.

Heretic.

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